How to deal with dysfunctional situation

[psyche912]

Hi everyone,

I’m wondering if any of you have experience with a situation similar to what I’m describing.

I am happily married and doing well in my peaceful new life now, thanks to God! However, I left behind a dysfunctional family situation.

My mom is hurting deeply from my brother and my dad. Every time I talk to her, I get sad and heartbroken. To be brief, it seems like she has been in a co-dependent/enabling role all my life. My dad is a recently recovering alcoholic, yet even this has not “resolved” the bitter toxicity that has lived in that house for years, because he still acts in a way that’s extremely self-absorbed. (He is very immersed in his own recovery, and doesn’t appear to want to talk about anything else, even though we are all… or at least, I am still, waiting for the day where he makes amends and we actually talk to each other. I have a wall up against him because I’ve been hurt, too, but I also try to be realistic, charitable, and empathetic about what he’s going through.)

My mom “overshares,” one could say, and I hear the same stories on constant repeat. I don’t even know what to say anymore, because I have tried offering constructive feedback in the past and it all gets shut down. She feels trapped, regardless of what I say. She is supporting my brother, who has not had a job in two years (which my dad resents, but does nothing constructive about… He has only ever ignored or belittled my brother, while my mom coddles him.) My mom says she also resents enabling my brother and doing everything for him, including applying to jobs for him, but I’ve also not seen any of that stop. She and I don’t want my brother evicted, but my mom has said she’s desperate for him to leave… not only for his own protection (against my dad), but also suggesting that she and my dad may separate once my brother is finally out of the house. (Then again, who knows? That’s always been a threat, all my life, and yet that has never happened. Maybe it will, once we all finally leave their house, since our older sister has also married and moved out-- but hers is a sad and distressing story too…)

Anyway… I guess my question is, what is the Catholic way to see all of this? Do I continue to listen to my mom and my sister’s heartbreaking stories out of love for them? (I do my best to maintain healthy boundaries, but I don’t even know what those are, and I am wondering how to resolve this tension I feel between my responsibility to be a charitable, patient-in-suffering Christian vs. wanting to protect my own feelings and my husband as well, because to hear this abuse go on and on and be able to do nothing about it feels maddening…) How do I deal with my own “survivor’s guilt” about all of this? What is the way to “honor my parents”? I pray for them (always!!), and I wonder if any of you have thoughts about what the fruits of those prayers might be. Maybe there’s nothing anyone can do or say, and I will continue to wait desperately for God’s timing.

If you could remember us in prayer, I would appreciate it from the bottom of my heart! Thank you for reading!

 

[puer.dei]

Your family has been through an awful lot. It’s going to take time and help to heal.
You said your father is “recently” recovering. At this early stage, he has to concentrate on himself. Most of all, on not taking a drink. That MUST be his main focus.
If he’s doing a 12-step program, there will probably come a time when the next step is to make amends. But he probably is not even capable of that yet. Don’t push him into what he’s not ready for.
Your mother needs counseling; you and your brother do, as well. It will help you deal with what has happened in the past, what’s happening now, and determining a way forward.

It’s natural if you resent your father for what he’s put your family through. But don’t forget that he’s put himself through it, too. He’s done at least as much damage to himself as he has to others. He’s walking a tightrope right now. Try to support him. If you haven’t already, tell him you’re proud of him for stopping drinking; tell your mother you recognize how strong she’s been to stay with him; tell your brother you’re there for him while he gets back on his feet. And be sure you know it’s not your fault – children of alcoholics, even adult children, often think it is.

 

[psyche912]

Thank you so much for replying!

Regarding my dad, I appreciate your compassion for him. I have also stopped wanting anything from my dad a long time ago. I don’t have active resentment anymore, just a “wall” if that makes sense, and a feeling of disappointment that my mom feels so abandoned by him. I don’t talk to him unless I have to, and when I do, I just focus on keeping myself civil and polite. I just pray for him, and wish him a more peaceful stage of life in his later age. Yes, he is doing 12 Steps, and he is 7 months in. I don’t know how long it will take to do these stages, but I don’t want to rush him. I just hope he will think about my mom and my brother for a change, instead of just himself and how he feels. He has been the center of all of our discussions for a very long time, it seems.

Regarding my mom and brother, yes, I agree… I hope with all of my heart that they pursue therapy. My mom is not open to it, however. My brother might be open to it, and he got some form of Medicaid health insurance the other day, but he also doesn’t tend to pursue things on his own. I very much hope he will take the initiative to go online and find someone in his network, but this may also be complex for him (I’m not sure). (Complicated sidebar… My mom insists that my brother has disabilities, but he has never been diagnosed with anything.) I always help whenever my brother asks me to (even though he doesn’t talk to me much), but I am also trying to respect his autonomy as an adult, and I don’t want to keep doing things “for” him because it hasn’t been healthy.

Next time I talk to my mom, I will definitely try telling her that I think she’s strong! Inevitably, it will come up, because she talks to me about these issues every time we talk. I used to think she was very strong indeed, but lately I have only been worrying for her. She has explicitly said she’s not strong. I think she “unloads” on me because she needs help, and I just wish so badly I could give it to her. I can’t count how many times I’ve suggested some form of therapy.

Thank you, again, for reading!

P.S. Forgot to add – yes, I myself have been in therapy as well. Only my sister and I have done it.

 

[MamaJewel]

Hi Psyche 912,
Welcome to Catholic Answers forums.

First, congrats on your happy marriage, peaceful new life, willingness to see a therapist, and desire to heal…

Coming from a family of origin (FOO) that includes an alcoholic parent with military service related Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (CPTSD), another codependent parent with CPTSD, domestic violence, and other types of abuse, I can feel your genuine care and concern for your family.

Since you have seen a therapist already, I’m sure you understand the importance of boundaries. While Catholics are expected to honor their parents, they are also expected to have boundaries in place for self-preservation in familial situations like you and I have experienced.

I get the hurt that one parent suffers because of the “choices” made by the other parent. I think it’s great that your dad has quit drinking and is a 12 step program. From what I’ve seen, the consistent inward focus by a recovering alcoholic parent is normal for several months to a few years after quitting booze. Recovery is a challenging process that takes time for the individual to come to grips with the destruction to self and others resulting from the addiction. I totally get that wall you have built toward your dad, because there was a point in my own life where all I could do was offer up a Mass for my own father’s recovery. Seven dry months is a short time for a long-term alcoholic. So keep praying for a continued miracle on your dad’s recovery journey, including his ability to make amends and be the husband and parent he should have been. Hopefully, he will get to the point in his recovery where you can tell him from the heart that you are proud of him for quitting and honestly share with him the misery his former drinking unleashed on you all.

 

[MamaJewel]

Psyche,

Thinking about the dynamic with your mom… hmm.

As far as your mom is concerned, you’ll have to be honest with her as well. Show empathy by recognizing her pain, and continue to let her know how strong she is. Right now, you need to believe it for her, because she does not believe it herself.

When she starts to “overshare”, kindly explain that you are on your own healing journey from the dysfunction you grew up with and that your therapist suggested that you avoid talking about the heartbreaking circumstances with family members until you are further along in your healing. You can let your mom and sister know that a good counselor with training in addiction recovery would be more constructive for their suffering, along with a recovery program like Al-anon. Let your mom and sis know that in order for dad to stay sober and get better, the whole family will have to engage in recovery and learn healthy, constructive, and productive boundaries.

Then stick to your boundaries and re-direct the conversation to a better topic.

When your mom starts oversharing, you could say something like, " Mom, I hear you. I feel your pain and I don’t want you to think that I am ignoring or minimizing you. I love you and dad. I am “grateful” (or whatever genuine emotion you feel) that you are my mom. It’s been very difficult and I appreciate all of the sacrifices you’ve made. But mom, my therapist recommended that I avoid thinking about the heartbreak outside of counseling. I know you’ll understand why I can’t focus on it right now and if dad is going to stay sober and recover, everyone in the family will have to learn new boundaries so we all can heal. A good counselor that helps families through addiction recovery and a program like Al-anon is all I can recommend. So, let’s talk talk about something else. I love you, mom, and I want you to know that."

Have a positive topic or two in mind to discuss for when you’ve redirected the conversation. If your mom does not relent, then politely end the call.

 

[MamaJewel]

Oh, also the Venerable Matt Talbot’s intercession could be helpful.
https://www.franciscanmedia.org/venerable-matt-talbot/

Also, for further reading:

works by Dr. Janet G. Woititz
Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACoAs)
Lifeskills for Adult Children
The Self-Sabotage Syndrome
The Struggle for Intimacy
Marriage on the Rocks
Healing Your sexual Self

works by Melody Beattie
Codependent’s Guide to the Twelve Steps
Codependent No More
The Language of Letting Go
Playing it by Heart (Taking Care of Yourself No Matter What)
The New Codependency (Help and Guidance for Today’s Generation)
Choices (Taking Control of Your Life and Making It Matter)

Both of these authors have helped me immensely on my journey of healing.
I will keep you in my prayers and ask that you pray for me as well.

Peace,
MJ

 

[psyche912]

Hi MamaJewel,

Wow, thank you so much for your detailed and insightful response. I was hoping I would find a response like yours because, even though I appreciate my therapist, our conversations are only secular in nature. And I guess I wasn’t sure how some of this person’s advice fit with Catholic morals, Catholic understanding of the person, etc. To cut off my parents altogether doesn’t seem like “honoring” them, even though I have been made aware over recent years about the importance of boundaries.

Regarding what to say to my mom, well sadly, she does look down on therapy and Al-Anon and has even made fun of me before for going to both of those things, therapy and Al-Anon (which really hurt). She would get angry if I started a sentence with “My therapist said I should…” So I may just have to frame it as if it were my own idea, and hopefully she will respect that.

What I do hope my mom takes some heart in is the fact that these processes (my dad’s recovery, my brother’s search for independence) may simply take some time. My mom feels burnt out and pessimistic about either of those things happening, and she frequently talks as if they never will (I.e., my dad will slip back into drinking like he’s done after past attempts at sobriety, my brother will never “grow up” and get a job and leave the house, etc.). I had been doing my best already to stay upbeat and hopeful when she talks like that, but now I may add something like “You know, we’re only 7 months in” or “You know, sometimes it does take years for young people to figure out what they really want in life,” etc. I don’t know… hopefully statements like that will help offer some perspective.

I will definitely look into the titles you suggested, and thank you also for bringing up Venerable Matt Talbot. You and your own loved ones are certainly in my prayers!

 

[TheLittleLady]

You, your siblings, your mom - get to an AlAnon or AlaTeen meeting today.

 

[psyche912]

This is wonderful, but I’m pretty sure she would interpret this as me shutting down what she’s saying and not react well. She also doesn’t like to be told what to do, especially by me, since I have been sort of dismissed as the know-it-all. I’m glad this worked for your family! Can never have enough prayer!

 

[psyche912]

I have been to Al-Anon (and my dad goes to AA, but keeps most of the details to himself). No one else in my family is open to Al-Anon, no matter how many times I’ve suggested it. My mom has flat out said it’s for losers, my sister said she’s not comfortable sharing in groups, and my brother reacts with nothing/a blank stare or ignores me. I myself have had mixed experiences with Al-Anon… mostly bad, unfortunately… but I have appreciated the insights behind the methods and the literature. And I have met kind people there. I think I personally have “learned” more working with my therapist, but we did frequently refer to Al-Anon and she has told me to go when situations were most active (when I was still living with my parents). I wish my family were open to it or something similar, but right now I don’t think anyone is.

 

[MamaJewel]

This is wonderful, but I’m pretty sure she would interpret this as me shutting down what she’s saying and not react well. She also doesn’t like to be told what to do, especially by me, since I have been sort of dismissed as the know-it-all.

What do you mean by this? Would you please elaborate?

I wish my family were open to it or something similar, but right now I don’t think anyone is.

So, basically your family members aren’t willing to consider methodologies that have helped you heal?

And when you bring up the techniques (therapy, individual 12 steps, etc.) they minimize your work in your own healing and are non-responsive to examine methods that might help them individually and together as a family unit?

God Bless your dad. And btw, it’s perfectly normal not to share the AA details because of the commitment to privacy of members.

About the only things I can recommend at this point are:

Prayer, offering up Mass, offering up anything and everything really (i know it sounds crazy) for your family’s healing, and putting boundaries in place regarding the negative talk.

Oh, and let your dad know your proud of him and what he’s accomplished. Let him know you’re there to cheer him on and that you know he can stay sober.

 

[psyche912]

What do you mean by this? Would you please elaborate?

It tends to not go over well when I directly suggest things, even if I frame it as “How about we…?” or “Could we try…?” (as opposed to “You should…”). I guess I’ve always been seen as the overachiever who’s out-of-touch with hardship or suffering. I am usually accused of being arrogant, a know-it-all, or a holy roller if I tell others what to do, especially my mom, so a command on my part to stop the conversation and pray would not be perceived well. Plus, when I do offer advice, I have gotten accused of “not listening” as well. As in, “You don’t have to tell me to do anything; I just wanted someone to listen to me.” So, I’ve felt sort of shamed about trying to do the whole “actionable suggestions” route, because in my mom’s eyes it means that I’m not willing to simply “be” and listen to her heartache. I do want to be a good listener, with all my heart. I thought that giving feedback or changing the subject might be a way to sort of interrupt (in a positive way) the cycles of pain through sharing and re-living these stories, and start to turn us in more positive directions, but I don’t think it’s been seen that way.

So, basically your family members aren’t willing to consider methodologies that have helped you heal?

And when you bring up the techniques (therapy, individual 12 steps, etc.) they minimize your work in your own healing and are non-responsive to examine methods that might help them individually and together as a family unit?

It would seem so, yes. I mean, I know that only God knows what’s really in their hearts, but those are the only outward responses I’ve gotten. So yes, because I’ve gotten my feelings hurt by suggesting therapy or Al-Anon (mostly by my mom or my brother… my sister seemed a little more sympathetic, even as she expressed her personal discomfort with sharing in a group and said no when I asked her to come with me). My mom has made her opinion about therapy clear (e.g., “I could tell you the same things a therapist will tell you” or “I bet your therapist doesn’t have a very good relationship with her mother”) or blamed my dad as the reason we never went as a family (“Your father never wanted to go. Can you imagine getting him to sit there?”)

 

[psyche912]

God Bless your dad. And btw, it’s perfectly normal not to share the AA details because of the commitment to privacy of members.

About the only things I can recommend at this point are:

Prayer, offering up Mass, offering up anything and everything really (i know it sounds crazy) for your family’s healing, and putting boundaries in place regarding the negative talk.

Oh, and let your dad know your proud of him and what he’s accomplished. Let him know you’re there to cheer him on and that you know he can stay sober.

Thank you! This last one is sort of hard for me. It has been hard for me to move past the horrible things my dad has done to my mom and brother (in the past and even in the present). To “cheer my dad on” in any capacity, for any reason, feels like a betrayal to them. My mom feels it will encourage his “victim” mentality, and I secretly worry the same. (My brother simply hates him.) However, the Christian message is pretty clear… we are required to forgive those who have hurt us, even if the offenders are not sorry. (My dad may be sorry about these things, but it is hard to tell and we never talk about anything.) My dad has frequently accused my mom of “poisoning the kids against me” (I.e., my siblings and me). I am old enough now to see how this may be true, but I am also old enough to understand how very hurt my mom and brother are (and my mom gaslighted). (Well, I am hurt too, but I don’t want to acknowledge that because it gets me too emotional.) Anyway, I am proud of my dad, but it’s also hard for me to talk with him about anything beyond the surface level. He didn’t drink during my wedding, which I appreciated (I’m sure it wasn’t easy!). When he first told me he was going to get sober (7 months ago)… which was one of the most awkward and painful conversations I’ve ever had in my life… I then went to my computer as soon as I possibly could, and compiled for him an email of secular and Catholic resources, which included me even calling places around the diocese. (Sidebar… I did a similar thing when I was 8 years old… I remember changing the desktop background of his computer to show a stop sign, saying “Stop drinking! For your health!” and pointing him to a Word document I’d created about why drinking is bad… He said “What is this [stuff] on my computer?” and deleted everything. Ugh, that hurt.) But anyway, all of this is to say I am trying to be supportive of his sobriety journey. I don’t know how to bring up “I’m proud of you” without being incredibly awkward, but I also don’t want him to give up; he genuinely looks healthier with having lost a ton of weight so far, and that part makes me happy.

Ugh, I’m sorry, I hope this whole post hasn’t turned into a rant or character defamation. I am truly seeking a Catholic perspective in all of this. I will continue offering all my prayers and Masses. Thank you!