How to distinguish Satguru (Human Incarnation) and Guru?

[dattaswami]

How to distinguish Satguru (Human Incarnation) and Guru?

In the word Satguru, the prefix ‘Sat’ means truth. A Satguru always preaches the truth. Truth is always harsh and is not liked by several people. Therefore a Satguru will have only very few disciples. A Satguru says that the path with thorns will lead to the Lord. People will not like this. He also says that the path with flowers leads to hell. People will not be happy with this preaching. A Guru preaches which several people like. The Guru says that the nature of the goal will be the nature of the path. Since the Lord is full of bliss the path also must be with flowers giving happiness. Since the hell is giving you lot of pain the path with thorns which also gives lot of pain must lead to the hell. This argument is very attractive. Several people will like this and will become the followers of Guru. Several people will praise him and give lot of Guru Dakshina because his argument is pleasant.

But a Satguru says that the path with thorns alone will lead to the Lord because in this path you have to cut the bonds with your family and with your hard-earned money. Sacrifice gives lot of pain and sacrifice alone will lead to the Lord. The path with flowers strengthens your bonds with your family and money which gives you lot of happiness. Such path leads to the hell. Several people do not like such argument and so only one or two persons who can realize the truth will become His disciples. A Satguru will never worry about the number of the disciples and about the quantity of Guru Dakshina. Even if a single disciple is available He is happy. Majority always goes to hell. Only one in millions like Sankara, Vivekananda, Meera can reach the Lord. Diamonds are always in minority. Gravel stones are in majority. Therefore a Satguru will be only one in thousands of Gurus and a true disciple will be only one in millions of disciples. When you are doing prayers you are praising the Lord as a poet praises a king.

The foolish king may give some gift to the poet. But the omniscient Lord can never be fooled by such praise. When you sing songs are chant the name of the Lord or express the feelings of devotion by shedding tears or by meditation you are getting the happiness and peace immediately. You have achieved the fruit. The Lord will not give another fruit for these things. When you are pained and loose peace by cutting the family bonds and by sacrificing your work and wealth to the Lord, then only the Lord will give the real gift to you. When you are working in the field for the owner, doing the work pains you. The owner will pay money for your work. Without doing the work, if you are simply chanting the name of the owner or sing songs on the owner, a wise owner will never give any gift. You have already derived the bliss and peace by eating the sweet in your hand. Why should I pay you when you are eating the sweet? When you sacrifice the sweet to me I shall pay you. A Satguru teaches only the sacrifice which is the path with thorns leading to the Lord. Veda says that sacrifice alone can bring the grace of the Lord (Dhanene Tyagenaike).

If you ask the payment by prayers and devotion the Lord will pay you from your pocket only. He will bring the results of good deeds from your future life cycles and present them to you. But when you are sacrificing the sweet to the Lord in spite of your hunger and your heart pain, the Lord rewards you from His pocket. Therefore the true path leading to the Lord can be identified by loss of peace, mental worry, pain etc., The path to the hell is identified by peace, happiness, benefit etc., Satguru leads you to the Lord and Guru leads you to the hell.

 

[francisca]

Thus Satguru teach “effort” of human will to liberate oneself from the world. But in your other post you explain how Brahmana birth give a man a life of faith, but if he fails, he will be reborn to a lower form of life which is Ksatriya who believe in human effort.

As a person who believe in God’s favor, I am a believer of goodness all the way from this life to the next. What I mean is, God who is good always provide us with goodness. Thus along His path is surely goodness. The way of suffering for God is to attain greater goodness. Thus if somebody endure some amount of suffering, there surely be goodness provided along the way and at the end of the journey. I do believe in “inevitable” suffering, but not in “self-initiated” suffering. If I were to choose to suffer, I will fail to recognize the good things God has provided for me from the beginning. But if because I choose goodness over bad, then-- because of this choice-- I have to suffer inevitably, that suffering worth because I choose goodness over bad. In any case, goodness is my lot and will always be because I believe in God who is good. I will not go stray chosing bad things (to suffer for no real reason) because I don’t belive in god who want me to suffer.

Proverb 13 :
15 Good understanding wins favor,
but the way of the unfaithful is hard. [a]
17 A wicked messenger falls into trouble,
but a trustworthy envoy brings healing.
18 He who ignores discipline comes to poverty and shame,
but whoever heeds correction is honored.
20 He who walks with the wise grows wise,
but a companion of fools suffers harm.
21 Misfortune pursues the sinner,
but prosperity is the reward of the righteous.
22 A good man leaves an inheritance for his children’s children,
but a sinner’s wealth is stored up for the righteous.
25 The righteous eat to their hearts’ content,
but the stomach of the wicked goes hungry.

Therefore the true path leading to the Lord can be identified by loss of peace, mental worry, pain etc., The path to the hell is identified by peace, happiness, benefit etc., Satguru leads you to the Lord and Guru leads you to the hell.

Your conclusion above is untruthful. It is derived from a mixture between good and evil resulting a confusion.

The path to hell cannot be identified by peace, hapiness, and benefits. This is a totally wrong conclusion. This is a lie. Satguru shall never teach this.

You must know that God of light and goodness is unlimitedly “almighty”. There is noway that the good God wills suffering. If it contradict each other, that is because we believe in the mixture of good and evil gods.

The way of suffering does not have any value if it comes from believing that God wills us to suffer. The value of suffering comes from “the inevitability” when we choose good over bad, sometimes we have to suffer for the good we choose, not by the will of the good God but by the will of His opponents. But because the good God is unlimitedly almighty, we believe consistently that whoever in His favor will gain goodness as He has prepared for us since the begining.

 

[JLM316]

the essence of the Christian faith - is that God is 3 seperate persons in one - a loving Father, an obedient Son, and a convicting and consoling Holy Spirit. Each equal and each totally God. Our belief is that the Loving Father is in fact not simply a loving Father. ie: a Father that Loves but rather is Love itself. ie: Love=God. The obedient Son Jesus Christ, provides us with our knowledge of God in human form - for the Son was completely human and also completely God - it was through the example of the Son that we come to know the nature of God - and through which our salvation is made possible - for it is the Son who allows mere men to kill Him on a cross to satisfy the eternal justice of the Father, that only those who are pure Love as well can be with God - God knew we would fall short - so He paid the ransom for our failings, He settled the bill, and takes our place, taking the blame for original Sinful nature inherited since the beginning of the human race, and also the blame for every Sin we ever commited, or ever will commit. He in fact bore our faults on a tree to reconcile us to God - and it is through no other name, that anyone in this world regardless of what they believe can be saved - He is the only way. Now the third person of God, the Holy Spirit, is the most mysterious because He lives within each of us - the Holy Spirit is in each of us who are redemned by the blood of the Son of God - and since the Holy Spirit is fully God - it means each of us, have God inside of us, ie: each of us is a part of God - ie: we share God. This is a mystery - but in fact is the only way to understand our sanctification because only those who are in communion with God will be able to be in His presence - the effort to do this however is not our own - It is His, ie: His Holy Spirit. We do nothing but “let go” and allow the Holy Spirit to work in us, through us. The Holy Spirit is the giver of life and it is through the Church that the Holy Spirit can manifest Himself - Its only through letting go and allowing God to shine through us - not of our own effort that we reach the place you are speaking of, He paid the ransom for us, and now seeks that we die to ourselves- to rise to a new life that is led by the Holy Spirit, ie: controlled by God. We are mere instruments - vessels for the Holy Spirit to shine through us. God works through those who Love Him - so as Jesus and the Father are ONE so also does He desire that we become one through His Church with them - It is the mystery of the Sacraments - that leads to this Oneness with God - we give up our selfish flesh to be led by the Spirit, and when we Die God will say I truly knew you - you were one of my sheep - not because you did not sin - not because you feared hell, not because of your ambition to be with God - not because of anything you have done - because all have sinned and have fallen short of the Glory of God - but rather because you have truly accepted my Grace - offered to you freely in the death of my Son by allowing the Holy Spirit to convert your life - by allowing God to do the work in us - He desires only that we lay in His lap and trust Him. St. John the beloved disciple is a perfect example of Trust - as His our mother Mary - She said yes, and allowed God to work through Her. so that is all we must do - not of our own effort but by His through us. we do not work to be saved. He works through us. Sin breaks our fellowship and wounds our relationship, but we always have a way to return for God is infinitely merciful because of His Son, and only because of His son, for it was His cross that made all hope possible. All Christians and all mankind our united in this and no one can escape it. All are saved through it and those who do not know it through no fault of thier own do not know it are still saved by it because in thier own way through the grace that was revealed to them they did not reject it.