How to Evangelize: part 1 The Bible

[sirach2v4]

This is the first time I fully realized there is a forum on evangelization. I may spend a lot more time here.

But, first, I want to contribute (I hope) a short discourse on why Protestantism is false. I can only assume that to evangelize a Protestant, we have to hack our way through a lot of falsehoods of Protestantism, and perhaps this will help you.

I don’t know how Catholics can sugar-coat this problem. But, I think this issue ought to be discussed early-on with a potential convert – you have to get them “off the spot” where they are standing, Biblically, and this may be persuasive.

The following is blunt, but that is to get to the point of the issue:​

the day Martin Luther was born, there were 73 books in the bible, and 2 Tim 3 said that “all” scripture was inspired by God. (The "sacred writings’ and ‘scripture’ that Paul was writing about was THE SEPTUAGINT, upon which the Catholic and Orthodox Bibles are based.)

the day Martin Luther died, there were only 66 books in “his” bible, because he had rejected 7 inspired books of the bible. All Protestants are not “Lutherans” but they are Luther-ists, because they use his bible.

How do Protestants justify this arithmetic, subtracting 7 inspired books? If “the bible” is their sole authority, where does it say IN the bible that Luther should take out those 7 books?

What Luther did was not in accord with the Bible itself – 2 Tim 3. Luther went against the authority of the Bible.

How can you possibly believe in such a man and his principles?

God is three Persons in One: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

If you deny one of them, you deny them all. If you deny 7 books inspired by the Holy Spirit, then you have committed the unpardonable sin of denying the Holy Spirit.

If you deny the Holy Spirit, you deny Christ.

If you deny Christ, how can you be “saved?”

Marcion was one of the early heretics in the Church who rejected ALL of the Old Testament and three gospels and a lot of other books in the New Testament. Martin Luther is a heretic just like Marcion, but in his own special way.

How can you be saved if you are a Lutherist and deny the Holy Spirit?

the mercy of God is great. On the cross, Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. Protestants obviously don’t know what they are doing, and can be saved — in the Catholic Church.

(Every time a Protestant picks up a Protestant Bible – Luther’s Bible – they are holding in their hands the evidence of his sins. Remember: Jesus didn’t throw out any books of the Bible, but Martin Luther DID. )

 

[Neofight]

The very premise of any discourse on “Why Protestantism is False”, may actually be counter-productive to Evangelization.

Perhaps a more productive approach would be a discourse on “Why Catholicism is the Truth”.

Starting a discussion with, “You’re wrong, so let me point out the errors of your beliefs,” is a sure fire way to turn someone off.

A more charitable discourse might be to find common ground and work outward from there, starting with subtle and working gradually up to more profound differences.

Peace and all good!

 

[sirach2v4]

Thanks, I wanted to suggest that every Catholic should know the truth of what I said in the OP.

The Bible, as part of evangelization, will come up sooner or later. The arguments I suggested don’t need to be delivered with flashing lights and fake thunderbolts, but as I said, I think those points need to be firmly made, to nudge them off the Protestant mindset.

If you went to a meeting by protestants why you should join them, would you want to learn something like this at the first meeting, or in your 17th meeting?

If I went to their meeting, I’d ask the opposite question, why did Luther take 7 books out of the Bible? and on what authority?

I used to attend a bible study in a reformed church and one guy CONFRONTED ME publicly about purgatory, point blank.

Why would you want to waste anybody’s time with platitudes and things they already agree with as fellow christians, instead of giving them something serious to think about?

but for sure, I have no experience with evangelization. I don’t know if there is a standard opening line.

 

[Neofight]

Thanks, I wanted to suggest that every Catholic should know the truth of what I said in the OP.

The Bible, as part of evangelization, will come up sooner or later. The arguments I suggested don’t need to be delivered with flashing lights and fake thunderbolts, but as I said, I think those points need to be firmly made, to nudge them off the Protestant mindset.

If you went to a meeting by protestants why you should join them, would you want to learn something like this at the first meeting, or in your 17th meeting?

If I went to their meeting, I’d ask the opposite question, why did Luther take 7 books out of the Bible? and on what authority?

But of course, you know the answer before they give it to you correct? Some will say “they are not inspired”, which is a bad answer, but the more scholarly will say, because they are not in the original Jewish canon.

 

[sirach2v4]

But of course, you know the answer before they give it to you correct? Some will say “they are not inspired”, which is a bad answer, but the more scholarly will say, because they are not in the original Jewish canon.

what I’ve read is that all the quotations of the Old Testament IN the New Testament are from the Septuagint. The septuagint is the Jewish translation of the Hebrew scriptures into greek, done a couple years before Christ.

So, it’s hardly clear that those 7 book were not in the “original” canon. The Jewish canon wasn’t settled until after the time of Christ, in the first century, and it was biased by the Jewish concern of undercutting the christian use of the Hebrew scriptures. So, like in Is 7, where it says “a virgin shall conceive and bear a son” was changed to “young woman.”

I say this, paraphrasing the explanation in a book “Why do catholics do that?” - a guide to the teachings and practices of the catholic church by Kevin Johnson (with imprimatur and nihil obstat approvals.)

the citations of the septuagint in the New testament strongly make the case that in 2 Tim 3, where St. Paul says “all scripture is inspired by God” and also refers to the “sacred writings” that he is referring to the Septuagint. there can’t be any doubt about this, only skepticism.

This same book emphatically states that the Septuagint is THE Old testament of the catholic Bible. Johnson also says that even the Hebrew scriptures used in Jesus day had been translated back into Hebrew from the Greek.

Those 7 books were referenced by St Paul when he said “all scripture is inspired by God.”

who do you believe? St. Paul or Martin Luther?

 

[sirach2v4]

Neofight, you raise not only a good point, but a scriptural one. as has been pointed out in a Protestant sermon I heard re-broadcast on the radio.

Notice what Jesus does, he goes someplace and he converts one person at a time. Like the Samaritan woman at the well, He has his moments when he feeds 5,000, but you still read in the gospels how it is described. In a crowd of people, Jesus notices that one woman, in faith, touches his robe, and is healed. He feels power go out of him.

Last night, on women of grace, Johnette Benkovic and Deacon Harold S. were talking about this exact point, of needing to form relationships with people, to possibly convert them.

I’m just saying “the bible” will come up sooner or later, and you should have a goal in mind, or at least a milestone of showing the potential convert the scoreboard

Protestants 66
Catholics 73

There may be a lot of other hurdles, like doctrines about Mary or abortion or contraception. But, you have to talk about the Bible sooner or later and you have to talk about church authority,sooner or later. authority, apostolic succession ,etc. is who we are.

Absolutely, if someone approached me about being Catholic, I would pretty quickly ask them first what questions they had. They would only proceed one step at a time, at their own pace.

 

[Neofight]

the citations of the septuagint in the New testament strongly make the case that in 2 Tim 3, where St. Paul says “all scripture is inspired by God” and also refers to the “sacred writings” that he is referring to the Septuagint. there can’t be any doubt about this, only skepticism.

Be careful with this part…notice that there is no canonical difference in the NT between Catholics and Protestants…these books, although I am sure are truly inspired by God, were chosen from many “sacred writings” that were not included in the NT because of the even bigger issue that was required…that is Apostolic witness.

Otherwise we would might have ended up with a NT containing the many gnostic gospels.

 

[sirach2v4]

here are two non-Catholic essays on Luther’s perspective

Church of God member:
cogwriter.com/luther.htm

and an anti-Catholic webpage, which nonetheless describes Luther’s perspective.

It asserts the authority of the Jewish canon of scripture, which was decided upon after the Ascension. [This Jewish canon is doubted by some Catholic authors because it was a reaction to the rise of Christianity itself and was polemical in purpose, to undercut scriptures that Christians appealed to, and allegedly included some purposeful editing, such as changing the reference in Is 7 from “virgin” to “young woman.” ]

onearthasinheaven.com/cathbible.html

 

[benedictum]

My style in “confronting” a protestant evangelist goes like this (after being asked if I have a personal relationship with Jesus).

Me: Why do you think I do not have a personal relationship with Jesus?
Protestant (P): I did not mean that you do not have…
Me: But you implied with your question.
P:I just want to get you “saved” if you die tomorrow?
Me: OK, I will give you an hour to tell me how and why, but you will have to give me an hour to tell you what I have in mind. Is that a deal?
P: OK, that is a deal.
at this point, you listen and write the points on which you are equipped to rebut. When your hour has come then do your evangelizing.

What do you think of the above approach?

“If you do not wish to hear the truth, then bid me to speak nothing”