How to forgive Pope Francis

[OneSheep]

Murderer priests and terrorist priests and pedophile priests have no place in the priesthood of Christ’s Catholic Church. Period.

I think you are missing the fact that Pope Francis agrees with you on this. The “handfull” of priests that were not laicized were defrocked, they have no ministry. They are being kept alive on pensions or whatever else is going on. They are no longer priests in the real sense of the word.

You confuse forgiveness with rational reasoning, OneSheep. Forgiving someone for doing something does not necessitate that you shield them from justice for their crimes.

Nigel, please take a look at my last post and find the words “not acquittal”. Maybe you are reading my posts too quickly?

Were those murderers and terrorists priests in the Catholic Church at the time, and are even still? If so, then yes, you are an apologist for murderers and terrorists too, and guilty of grave sin for arguing…

Nigel, are you focusing anger you have at them on me because I have forgiven them? A person who forgives does not automatically become an “apologist” who excuses the acts of others, right? If you are missing this, then you are missing a very important part of the meaning of forgiveness from the heart.

Nigel, I have been an activist all my life, concerned about the same things you are expressing and more. But as a young man I once went to a priest with all my anger and judgment, questioning why the Church did not do more, etc., He explained what the Church does, looked at me with his gentle eyes, and said “It is not to condemn or condone, but understand.”

It is very natural for us to hang onto condemnation, Nigel, but it the long run it is true that “holding a grudge is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die” (AA). Yes, somewhere inside we may fear that if we let go of the condemnation we will become unmotivated. The fact is that a person can remain an activist and work to improve things without hanging onto condemnation.

Do peace, justice, and reconciliation begin in my heart? That is the question, right?

 

[OneSheep]

Well, I don’t think we can say that, exactly.

Perhaps, but when one looks at Isaiah 49:16, for example, it is pretty clear that He wants us to know that we have a special place with our Creator. With Jesus living, suffering, and dying for us, I think the point is brought home.

Spiritual growth takes us from a place of law-as-guide to love-as-guide. The law does not go away nor lose its importance, but love itself becomes the focus, and it can be seen that all law serves to first of all focus our behavior on mercy while we develop our own empathy and love of others.

The fear of breaking God’s Law is called Reverence (Fear of the Lord). It is one of the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

In my own spiritual journey, there was (is) a transformation of that “fear”. When I was young, I did not know the place that I (and everyone else) hold in our Father’s heart. I feared that there was something I could do in which He would reject me or want to banish me. Now that I know Our Father’s Unconditional Love, that “fear” is now one of true reverence, it is a love on my part that emanates from His. There is no experience of life that will stop me from loving Him, and I know that He loves me much more than that. Sure, there are times that I react to life and other people with anger, judgment, etc., but my commitment to loving unconditionally brings me back to forgiveness, acceptance, reconciliation.

Have you seen the quote on my profile? I can really relate to what Pope Francis says there in that tweet; this is also my experience of the Father. “Always”

 

[Teek]

Now that I know Our Father’s Unconditional Love, that “fear” is now one of true reverence, it is a love on my part that emanates from His. There is no experience of life that will stop me from loving Him,

This is piety. It is a different gift of the Holy Spirit.

Reverence (fear of the Lord) holds in awe the majesty of God and the distance between our own selves and Him. Piety recognizes the closeness we have to God because of what He did to bridge that gap. Reverence recognizes God’s justice, while piety recognizes His mercy.

BOTH are gifts of the Holy Spirit. Piety is not superior to reverence. However, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are measured out in different quantities to God’s people for the good of the body of Christ. Therefore, some of us will have a greater or lesser abundance of different gifts. Some may have a deeper reverence, but perhaps struggle with piety. Some may have deep piety, but perhaps less appreciation for reverence.

It cannot be said, though, that moving from reverence to piety is spiritual growth, exactly. If that is God’s will for you, of course it is! But we each have a different mission, a different road to travel, and God equips us perfectly for our own battle if we trust in Him. But my weapons and armor will be different from yours, not better or worse. Unique.

Have you ever listened to Mozart’s Requiem for the Dead? After my dad passed away, I got an English translation and watched a performance of it while reading the translation. Talk about reverence AND piety!

 

[OneSheep]

Reverence (fear of the Lord) holds in awe the majesty of God and the distance between our own selves and Him.

This “distance” becomes less with prayer and through service to others.

The “distance” is an illusion, actually, for God is within every person. All we are is from Him. However, when we do not know his great love for us, we naturally fear His power, and when we do not know of His forgiveness, we fear that He may actually seek to banish us in some way, the way that we ourselves naturally feel toward others who wrong us. Anthropomorphizing God is the default, and very understandable.

When we come to know the Lord better, we can learn that there is nothing to fear in terms of His relationship with us, but at the same time we are behaving increasingly towards others with love rather than fear as a guide. To the degree that a person still fears God’s wrath, for example, is the degree that a person benefits from such fear in behaving mercifully and charitably towards others. All sin involves some harm, and when a person develops in empathy the harm itself becomes the focus, penalties for misbehavior becomes rather obsolete as a guide. Think of a person driving in a way that maximizes safety as a guide, vs a person driving in a way that simply minimizes his chance of getting a ticket. It is empathy that is a big part of converting the latter to the former.

 

[petra22]

that he’s being quoted by world media

Don’t we unfortunately have to dig deeper into what the world media reports???

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

The point is that many people do not dig deeper, and I would hope that our pope would realize that the media is only too willing to twist his words, so it would be better to be prudent when speaking to the media. I guess that is too much to hope for, though.