How to help evangelical who focuses mostly on music/enthusiam

[Kathryn_Ann]

Hi,
I welcome help on this:
I would love some suggestions on how to help an evangelical worship leader whose focus is solely on how his music needs to motivate the people in his church to praise louder and become more exuberant. He has no idea of Church history, and is always lamenting the fact that his congregation was formerly (under the previous “worship leaders” lacking the right music needed to “get them going” in the spirit.

I was in a “pentecostal holiness” church for many years, so I know where he’s coming from. He mistakenly equates lack of shouting and lack of loud praising to a lack of spirituality. I know how anti-Catholic he is, but would like to gently suggest something that might enlighten him.

He lives far away and simply posts these things on a website. He is young, not educated, and very proud of his music, which he feels should be the center of the worship experience (rather than Holy Eucharist) I doubt they have “communion services” more than once a month, and know that the center of his parish life is all about down home feelings and the drums and guitar music. He influences many people. He, like two other friends, are into worship through “Christian rock music” and I’m sorry to say they know nothing of the Sacraments or the meaning of the Real Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.
Suggestions?
Peace,

 

[Semper_Zelare]

Well, If you say he’s anti-Catholic then sadly I don’t think the right place to start would be anything about the Eucharist.

Personally, I’d tell him about a service that I went to at a Southern Baptist church on Good Friday and I don’t think a single song was sung. The entire Church was dark (kind of like Easter Vigil) and the Pastor went through the Passion. And then they had a Communion service.

Maybe you can talk about people that pray during all that loud worship. He’ll probably agree that they’re pretty spiritual. So, all you need to do is ask him to put himself in their shoes. What if the music makes it hard for these people to concentrate in praying? What if the music is joyful and they want to pray for forgiveness? What if the music is somber and reflective, and they want to praise God and give thanks in their prayer?

In both of those examples the Church centers around the relationship between God and His people. And the music is either not a factor in that at all, or else it is a negative factor… putting strain there.

Jesus Christ should be the beating heart of any Christian Church. The music should not be. And in the second example, he needs to realize that most likely in EVERY service someone is not going to be “feeling” the music. Spiritually, they’re going to be in a different (possibly opposing) place than where the music is at.

And it just jumped into my head… what about deaf people?

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Well, If you say he’s anti-Catholic then sadly I don’t think the right place to start would be anything about the Eucharist.

Personally, I’d tell him about a service that I went to at a Southern Baptist church on Good Friday and I don’t think a single song was sung. The entire Church was dark (kind of like Easter Vigil) and the Pastor went through the Passion. And then they had a Communion service.

Maybe you can talk about people that pray during all that loud worship. He’ll probably agree that they’re pretty spiritual. So, all you need to do is ask him to put himself in their shoes. What if the music makes it hard for these people to concentrate in praying? What if the music is joyful and they want to pray for forgiveness? What if the music is somber and reflective, and they want to praise God and give thanks in their prayer?

In both of those examples the Church centers around the relationship between God and His people. And the music is either not a factor in that at all, or else it is a negative factor… putting strain there.

Jesus Christ should be the beating heart of any Christian Church. The music should not be. And in the second example, he needs to realize that most likely in EVERY service someone is not going to be “feeling” the music. Spiritually, they’re going to be in a different (possibly opposing) place than where the music is at.

And it just jumped into my head… what about deaf people?

Oh, bless you for your examples, and I too had not even thought about hearing impaired people, and I am one of them, with nearly total loss of hearing in my left ear. I am hoping he won’t say that they can “sense” the loud drumbeat, or that that is somehow going to help them feel spiritual. I’m wondering if your idea about that might actually be a way to gently ask him about how all this music helps people who don’t have full hearing…? I would love to share with him how I’m glad our Church doesn’t focus on that, but on praying and the Blessed Sacrament.

Sadly, yes, he, like many evangelicals, are very anti-Catholic, not knowing it is the Church Christ founded. I have posted on my FB account a little essay called “How Old is Your Church.” which lists the founders of all the different denominations. Then it ends with “If you are a Catholic, Jesus Christ founded your Church…” etc. and so it points very well to the divine continuity of the Church.

I appreciate your ideas very much. I will pray about a way to approach the subject in a gentle, compassionate way.
Thank you!

 

[Trebor135]

Hi,
I welcome help on this:
I would love some suggestions on how to help an evangelical worship leader whose focus is solely on how his music needs to motivate the people in his church to praise louder and become more exuberant. He has no idea of Church history, and is always lamenting the fact that his congregation was formerly (under the previous “worship leaders” lacking the right music needed to “get them going” in the spirit.

I was in a “pentecostal holiness” church for many years, so I know where he’s coming from. He mistakenly equates lack of shouting and lack of loud praising to a lack of spirituality. I know how anti-Catholic he is, but would like to gently suggest something that might enlighten him.

He lives far away and simply posts these things on a website. He is young, not educated, and very proud of his music, which he feels should be the center of the worship experience (rather than Holy Eucharist) I doubt they have “communion services” more than once a month, and know that the center of his parish life is all about down home feelings and the drums and guitar music. He influences many people. He, like two other friends, are into worship through “Christian rock music” and I’m sorry to say they know nothing of the Sacraments or the meaning of the Real Presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.
Suggestions?
Peace,

Point the worship leader to the heavenly, well, worship described in the book of Revelation. Ask him what he thinks of chapters four, five, seven, and eight serving as a model for earthly worship. After all, Jesus did instruct us to pray, “Thy kingdom come. / Thy will be done, / On earth as it is in heaven,” according to Matthew 6:10. (Interestingly enough, I’ve never heard the Our Father recited at an Evangelical service. So much for making sure all beliefs and practices align with Scripture! –The notion that formal liturgy should be completely avoided is, of course, a faulty tradition of men.)

 

[TrueLight]

You might want to tell him that the Spirit does not need music to move among the people and sometimes it is in the quiet places that we encounter him. Maybe you can ask him to meditate on this passage from 1 Kings 19:

The LORD Appears to Elijah
And the word of the LORD came to him: “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

10 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”

11 The LORD said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by.”

Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.

 

[robwar]

Point out Psalm 46:10 which says “Be still and know that I am God”
How can this happen if one is always opening their mouths and being loud?
Also God spoke to Elijah not in the wind and the storm but in a “Still small voice”
If one is always shouting and being loud how do they hear the “still small voice” of God?
Good Luck!

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Point the worship leader to the heavenly, well, worship described in the book of Revelation. Ask him what he thinks of chapters four, five, seven, and eight serving as a model for earthly worship. After all, Jesus did instruct us to pray, “Thy kingdom come. / Thy will be done, / On earth as it is in heaven,” according to Matthew 6:10. (Interestingly enough, I’ve never heard the Our Father recited at an Evangelical service. So much for making sure all beliefs and practices align with Scripture! –The notion that formal liturgy should be completely avoided is, of course, a faulty tradition of men.)

Thank you, I need to re-read that definitely. And I absolutely agree that it is a mistaken notion that formal liturgy is something to be avoided ( and that that is a faulty tradition of men.)

Having been lost in one of those mis-guided denominations, I remember how we were made to feel unworthy if we didn’t feel rapturous at every point in the service.

Not understanding the beauty of the divine continuity of The One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church Christ founded, I was driven by these faulty traditions of men which you described. Grateful for your wisdom on this.
Blessings,
:heaven:Kathryn Ann

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

You might want to tell him that the Spirit does not need music to move among the people and sometimes it is in the quiet places that we encounter him. Maybe you can ask him to meditate on this passage from 1 Kings 19:

Quote:
The LORD Appears to Elijah
And the word of the LORD came to him: “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

10 He replied, “I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too.”

11 The LORD said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by.”

Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave."

Oh, thank you TrueLight, this is marvelous! I don’t recall reading this and just love this example! While I understand that there are times when we can be joyful, and we can dance in the joy of the Lord as King David did, there is a beautiful balance in knowing when we should be quiet and still. And I truly believe that God is often in the “gentle whisper.” If our focus in on listening for God, we will have this balance. This is the kind of scripture I need, in order to make my point, so thank you so much.
Gratefully,
Kathryn Ann:angel1::flowers::curtsey:

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Point out Psalm 46:10 which says “Be still and know that I am God”
How can this happen if one is always opening their mouths and being loud?
Also God spoke to Elijah not in the wind and the storm but in a “Still small voice”
If one is always shouting and being loud how do they hear the “still small voice” of God?
Good Luck!

YES! Wonderful! Thank you! People are giving me just the right scriptures to help my friend along the way. When I think of how unbalanced I was in my earlier experiences, how I thought I had to always “feel” worthy and feel rapturous all the time, and how full of fear I was for failing at that, I really want to help this young man. When people are in positions of leadership, they are in danger of taking people down the wrong path with their mis-guided notions.

There is nothing wrong with happy, joyful music. But to make music the focus of the church is wrong. When I became a Catholic convert, I realized that The Blessed Sacrament, Christ’s Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist was the center and summit of my faith. I was full of awe to learn that! I just want to share this truth with my young friend and I hope he will listen.
I really appreciate this help.
Love and prayers,
:angel1::heaven:Kathryn Ann

 

[FCEGM]

Thank you, I need to re-read that definitely. And I absolutely agree that it is a mistaken notion that formal liturgy is something to be avoided ( and that that is a faulty tradition of men.)

Having been lost in one of those mis-guided denominations, I remember how we were made to feel unworthy if we didn’t feel rapturous at every point in the service.

Not understanding the beauty of the divine continuity of The One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church Christ founded, I was driven by these faulty traditions of men which you described. Grateful for your wisdom on this.
Blessings,
:heaven:Kathryn Ann

Kathryn Ann, the book Evangelical Is Not Enough by Thomas Howard would be an excellent one for this man to read. He gets right to the heart of why authentic liturgy is necessary in our pilgrimage of faith. (Howard is himself a convert.)

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

Kathryn Ann, the book Evangelical Is Not Enough by Thomas Howard would be an excellent one for this man to read. He gets right to the heart of why authentic liturgy is necessary in our pilgrimage of faith. (Howard is himself a convert.)

FCEGM, Thank you so much for this book title! I had not heard of it.:curtsey: I wonder-perhaps I’ll purchase it and just send it to him. He may be :dtsffended,:slapfight: but I hope not. This is just the thing needed: explaining the vital need for liturgy to someone who, through no fault of his own so far, has not understood this. My concern is that he is now “in charge” of many other people, and perpetuating the myth that pandering only to emotions through quasi religious:frighten: rock music:banghead: is what brings us closer to God. I really appreciate your help.
:heaven::harp::heaven:Kathryn Ann

 

[Trebor135]

Thank you, I need to re-read that definitely. And I absolutely agree that it is a mistaken notion that formal liturgy is something to be avoided ( and that that is a faulty tradition of men.)

Having been lost in one of those mis-guided denominations, I remember how we were made to feel unworthy if we didn’t feel rapturous at every point in the service.

Not understanding the beauty of the divine continuity of The One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church Christ founded, I was driven by these faulty traditions of men which you described. Grateful for your wisdom on this.
Blessings,
:heaven:Kathryn Ann

Thank you and God bless as well. Good luck in your dealings with the evangelical worship leader.

And I shall have to check out “Evangelical Is Not Enough”… It might make a good birthday present.

 

[FCEGM]

FCEGM, Thank you so much for this book title! I had not heard of it.:curtsey: I wonder-perhaps I’ll purchase it and just send it to him. He may be :dtsffended,:slapfight: but I hope not. This is just the thing needed: explaining the vital need for liturgy to someone who, through no fault of his own so far, has not understood this. My concern is that he is now “in charge” of many other people, and perpetuating the myth that pandering only to emotions through quasi religious:frighten: rock music:banghead: is what brings us closer to God. I really appreciate your help.

It was my pleasure, Kathryn Ann. It will be very difficult for him to accept that his own perception - but most of all, his own practice - is wanting. This book is a good corrective, and I hope he will be open to its lessons. God bless you both!