How to resond to questions of dissident parishes

[JCPhoenix]

I had a conversation with an acquaintance last night. She attends several parishes (travels a lot in the metro area we live in) and welcomed me to one of the parishes she attends. She described the priest coming down to hold hands during the Our Father

She didn’t agree with this action, but stated that she rather preferred to join hands with others in the parish around the altar during the Our Father.

She disagreed that this was not reverent. She said she felt more at peace with this type of worship.

She believes in the True Presence.

I told her about obedience to the Magesterium and that this was not an obedient practice.

She countered with unity, etc. I just didn’t have good enough answers for her questions.

The good news is that she did finally admit that she had never really been taught and that she cannot recognize liturgical abuse. She also admitted that she can’t see why this is abuse and why our posture (kneeling versus standing) at the consecration makes a difference. She disagrees that standing is not reverent.

She said, 'It’s better to stand with a heart on fire than kneel with a lukewarm heart". I ask, why does this have to be the choice?

Does anyone have any good counters to the question as to WHY we are to do as we do during the liturgy? Can anyone help me instruct her further as my own acceptance of the liturgy is woefully short of the knowledge needed to support it?

Thanks!

 

[Purificator]

JCPhoenix:

I had a conversation with an acquaintance last night. She attends several parishes (travels a lot in the metro area we live in) and welcomed me to one of the parishes she attends. She described the priest coming down to hold hands during the Our Father

She didn’t agree with this action, but stated that she rather preferred to join hands with others in the parish around the altar during the Our Father.

She disagreed that this was not reverent. She said she felt more at peace with this type of worship.

She believes in the True Presence.

I told her about obedience to the Magesterium and that this was not an obedient practice.

She countered with unity, etc. I just didn’t have good enough answers for her questions.

The good news is that she did finally admit that she had never really been taught and that she cannot recognize liturgical abuse. She also admitted that she can’t see why this is abuse and why our posture (kneeling versus standing) at the consecration makes a difference. She disagrees that standing is not reverent.

She said, 'It’s better to stand with a heart on fire than kneel with a lukewarm heart". I ask, why does this have to be the choice?

Does anyone have any good counters to the question as to WHY we are to do as we do during the liturgy? Can anyone help me instruct her further as my own acceptance of the liturgy is woefully short of the knowledge needed to support it?

Thanks!

Just two things. First, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is very well specified by the Church. Consider printing a copy of the latest GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum, having them bound as one volume at a copy store and giving it to her. Or a copy of Jimmy Akin’s Mass Confusion would be wonderful in this situation.

Second, explain to her just how inane her argument: 'It’s better to stand with a heart on fire than kneel with a lukewarm heart" is.

It’s also better to stand then run around in the sanctuary totally nude during the consecration, but that fact in no way mitigates the fact that the Church directs us to kneel during the consecration, and in the West, that is our position of supplication.

 

[Penitent]

Because obedience to the Magisterium is more important than “feelings” - and I dare say if someone is on fire standing, they’ll be just as on fire kneeling, and someone lukewarm kneeling is just as lukewarm standing.

I forget who said this, but the quote goes something like “have you ever heard of a disobedient saint?” Every one of them recognized that obedience in every instance outweighed their preferences, feelings, and desires.

When someone does something they want instead of what the Church (as taught by the Magisterium) states, they are putting their own opinions, desires, and feelings ahead of Christ’s Church. They’re saying they know better - that’s called disobedient and lacking in humility (prideful).

Penitent