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Angainor
Guest
I don’t understand how Jesus was omnipresent (while on Earth). It seems obvious to me that he was only present in one spot.
Could someone explain?
Could someone explain?
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st_felicity
Guest
I haven’t referenced any resources yet–these are just my musings and probably they come across as a stream of consciousness–sorry about that–bear with me, I’m thinkin’ out loud…
If, as John says,
1 1 2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be 4 through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;
then Jesus is omnipresent. Jesus wasn’t his human part sometimes and his divine part other times–he was fully human 100% of the time and fully divine 100% of the time. Jesus is not different from God–Jesus is one PERSON of God. If God is omnipresent–then so too is Jesus. His divine nature is not subject to time. Therefore there is no limit on the divine nature of Jesus–the man God. For example–His sacrifice on the cross saved Mary from original sin–BEFORE He was even conceived. Time is meaningless to the timeless divine nature of Jesus.Yes, Jesus took on a human nature that was one part of His dual nature when He walked the earth 2000 years ago and His human nature was subject to all the same things any human would be subject to–he had to eat, he grew up, he felt pain and emotional anguish–but He also had a divine nature–timeless, immutable, and omnipresent. How did he manage that? He’ God–what is beyond His ability?
If, as John says,
1 1 2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be 4 through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;
then Jesus is omnipresent. Jesus wasn’t his human part sometimes and his divine part other times–he was fully human 100% of the time and fully divine 100% of the time. Jesus is not different from God–Jesus is one PERSON of God. If God is omnipresent–then so too is Jesus. His divine nature is not subject to time. Therefore there is no limit on the divine nature of Jesus–the man God. For example–His sacrifice on the cross saved Mary from original sin–BEFORE He was even conceived. Time is meaningless to the timeless divine nature of Jesus.Yes, Jesus took on a human nature that was one part of His dual nature when He walked the earth 2000 years ago and His human nature was subject to all the same things any human would be subject to–he had to eat, he grew up, he felt pain and emotional anguish–but He also had a divine nature–timeless, immutable, and omnipresent. How did he manage that? He’ God–what is beyond His ability?
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tuopaolo
Guest
There should be an article in the catholic encyclopedia at www.newadvent.org that explains in what ways Jesus was and was not omnipresent.
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JimG
Guest
I don’t think that Jesus in his human nature was omnipresent while he walked the earth. In his divine nature, he is of course always omnipresent, the Word of God being present everywhere from all eternity. After his resurrection he had a glorified (yet still physical) body which was capable of passing through solid walls, and appearing and disappearing at will.
The type of presence which, I believe, started the discussion, was his sacramental presence in the Eucharist at the Last Supper. The Eucharistic presence is a real presence, which includes the physical, but it is a presence under the appearances of bread and wine.
If you examine Catholic belief about the Eucharistic species, it becomes clear that this is a very different type of presence. When we break the host, or divide the wine, Jesus is not divided. He is wholly present–including his entire body & blood–under the appearances of even the smallest particle of the Eucharistic species.
Not only that, but his presence at each Eucharist–at the Last Supper, or today, is not separate. Each Eucharist is one and the same Jesus. We receive the same body & blood today that the apostles received at the last supper. That type of presence means that Jesus is present sacramentally at each and every Eucharist. But it is not the same as what we mean by the omnipresence of God in the Divine Nature.
The type of presence which, I believe, started the discussion, was his sacramental presence in the Eucharist at the Last Supper. The Eucharistic presence is a real presence, which includes the physical, but it is a presence under the appearances of bread and wine.
If you examine Catholic belief about the Eucharistic species, it becomes clear that this is a very different type of presence. When we break the host, or divide the wine, Jesus is not divided. He is wholly present–including his entire body & blood–under the appearances of even the smallest particle of the Eucharistic species.
Not only that, but his presence at each Eucharist–at the Last Supper, or today, is not separate. Each Eucharist is one and the same Jesus. We receive the same body & blood today that the apostles received at the last supper. That type of presence means that Jesus is present sacramentally at each and every Eucharist. But it is not the same as what we mean by the omnipresence of God in the Divine Nature.
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big_guy144
Guest
The answer is found is the gospel of John.
“And no man hath ascended up to heaven,** but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven**.” John 3:13
For more information, read the Bible.
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Faithful_2_Rome
Guest
Just like many Saints are known to have Bi-Located, its not a stretch to believe that Jesus in his perfect nature even while in human form-(pre-glorified form) was able to be present in more than one place…recall also that when a mob was trying to capture him he “disappeared” from their midst before they could lay hands on him…in his human form he also walked on water.
My personal theory on Saintly bilocation is that since us humans arent perfect in our current form like Christ was, Angels probably took the form of the saints when appearing to other people, while the Saint was seen in a particular spot…either miles away or entire countries away…either that, or like Ann Emmerich stated, she HERSELF actually made these mystical trips…so perhaps, it was an Angel left BEHIND under the guise of her or a saints appearance.
My personal theory on Saintly bilocation is that since us humans arent perfect in our current form like Christ was, Angels probably took the form of the saints when appearing to other people, while the Saint was seen in a particular spot…either miles away or entire countries away…either that, or like Ann Emmerich stated, she HERSELF actually made these mystical trips…so perhaps, it was an Angel left BEHIND under the guise of her or a saints appearance.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello Angainor,
Our Spiritual God is Omni-Present to the whole of physical time. Our spiritual God is outside of physical time. Jesus comes down from heaven and is born of the flesh and lives day to day in physical time. Jesus is eternally begotten of God. Jesus is born into eternal Omni-Presence to the whole of physical time, from beyond creation to beyond the end of time, with the Father. Jesus is both fully free willed fleshly human and fully Divine God, Omni-Present to all past and future physcial time, in the same Being during the period of His flesh on earth.
Please visit Jesus Loves God
NAB PSA 2:4He who is throned in heaven laughs; the LORD derides them; Then in anger he speaks to them; he terrifies them in his wrath: “I myself have set up my king on Zion, my holy mountain. I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: The LORD said to me, 'You are my son; this day I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for an inheritance and the ends of the earth for your possession. You shall rule them with an iron rod: you shall shatter them like an earthen dish.’” NAB ACT 13:32
“We ourselves announce to you the good news that what God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, in raising up Jesus, according to what is written in the second psalm, You are my son; this day I have begotten you.” NAB JOH 3:3
Jesus gave him this answer: “I solemnly assure you, no one can see the reign of God unless he is begotten from above.” “How can a man be born again once he is old?” retorted Nicodemus. “Can he return to his mother’s womb and be born over again?” Jesus replied: “I solemnly assure you, no one can enter into God’s kingdom without being begotten of water and Spirit.” NAB 1PE 3:18He was put to death insofar as fleshly existence goes, but was given life in the realm of the spirit.NAB HEB 1:5 Messianic Enthronement.
To which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my son; today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be his father, and he shall be my son”? And again, when he leads his first-born into the world, he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.” NAB REV 1:4 Greetings.
To the seven churches in the province of Asia: John wishes you grace and peace – from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before the throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born from the dead and ruler of the kings of earth.NAB PSA 89:27
“He shall say of me, ‘You are my father, my God, the Rock, my savior.’ And I will make him the first-born, highest of the kings of the earth.” NAB COL 1:15 Fullness and Reconciliation.
He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creatures. In him everything in heaven and on earth was created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominations, principalities, or powers; all were created through him, and for him. He is before all else that is. In him everything continues in being. It is he who is head of the body, the church; he who is the beginning, the** first-born of the dead**, so that primacy may be his in everything.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
Our Spiritual God is Omni-Present to the whole of physical time. Our spiritual God is outside of physical time. Jesus comes down from heaven and is born of the flesh and lives day to day in physical time. Jesus is eternally begotten of God. Jesus is born into eternal Omni-Presence to the whole of physical time, from beyond creation to beyond the end of time, with the Father. Jesus is both fully free willed fleshly human and fully Divine God, Omni-Present to all past and future physcial time, in the same Being during the period of His flesh on earth.
Please visit Jesus Loves God
NAB PSA 2:4He who is throned in heaven laughs; the LORD derides them; Then in anger he speaks to them; he terrifies them in his wrath: “I myself have set up my king on Zion, my holy mountain. I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: The LORD said to me, 'You are my son; this day I have begotten you. Ask of me and I will give you the nations for an inheritance and the ends of the earth for your possession. You shall rule them with an iron rod: you shall shatter them like an earthen dish.’” NAB ACT 13:32
“We ourselves announce to you the good news that what God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, in raising up Jesus, according to what is written in the second psalm, You are my son; this day I have begotten you.” NAB JOH 3:3
Jesus gave him this answer: “I solemnly assure you, no one can see the reign of God unless he is begotten from above.” “How can a man be born again once he is old?” retorted Nicodemus. “Can he return to his mother’s womb and be born over again?” Jesus replied: “I solemnly assure you, no one can enter into God’s kingdom without being begotten of water and Spirit.” NAB 1PE 3:18He was put to death insofar as fleshly existence goes, but was given life in the realm of the spirit.NAB HEB 1:5 Messianic Enthronement.
To which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my son; today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be his father, and he shall be my son”? And again, when he leads his first-born into the world, he says, “Let all the angels of God worship him.” NAB REV 1:4 Greetings.
To the seven churches in the province of Asia: John wishes you grace and peace – from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before the throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born from the dead and ruler of the kings of earth.NAB PSA 89:27
“He shall say of me, ‘You are my father, my God, the Rock, my savior.’ And I will make him the first-born, highest of the kings of the earth.” NAB COL 1:15 Fullness and Reconciliation.
He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creatures. In him everything in heaven and on earth was created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominations, principalities, or powers; all were created through him, and for him. He is before all else that is. In him everything continues in being. It is he who is head of the body, the church; he who is the beginning, the** first-born of the dead**, so that primacy may be his in everything.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
J
JimG
Guest
Faithful 2 Rome:
But I do agree that Jesus even in his unglorified body could have bilocated or used preternatural powers if he wished.
I don’t think that bi-location is as complicated as using an angelic substitute. All it requires is that one’s worldline (one’s personal timeline through time and space) bend back on itself a few times, or make a few curves. God can easily cause that to happen.
But I do agree that Jesus even in his unglorified body could have bilocated or used preternatural powers if he wished.
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Faithful_2_Rome
Guest
Thats an interesting take on bi location…it still boggles the mind, that even though God is outside space and time, we are not, we exist IN time and space…and even though, theres that possibility that he can take our non glorified matter and put us in 2 places at once without using an Angel in our form. Just another great mystery awaiting to be revealed to us someday. 
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Angainor
Guest
Bilocation is interesting an all, but I was concerned with the general concept of omnipresence, that is the quality of existing everywhere.
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Angainor
Guest
Was and was not omnipresent? It seems to me that either you exist everywhere or you don’t.
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Angainor
Guest
My bible says some manuscripts do not include “which is in heaven”.
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tdandh26
Guest
The Holy Trinity, wherever one is, there the other must be, and even though the Son took on human flesh He and the Father were still one.
Jesus also knew what others were doing when He wasnt present and He knew what they were thinking. ponder that.
Simply, it is for us to know through faith, for some things the human mind cannot comprehend. In which case we call it a mystery
Jesus also knew what others were doing when He wasnt present and He knew what they were thinking. ponder that.
Simply, it is for us to know through faith, for some things the human mind cannot comprehend. In which case we call it a mystery
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