How would these two people enter the Catholic Church?

[Nelka]

Person 1.

Is a Protestant, he married a woman who is divorced they have no children. Surely he would need to leave her and obtain an annulment?

Person 2.

Is a Protestant, she is divorced and married a man who is divorced. They have children, would they have to split up or would they be allowed to live together in a platonic relationship?

If they were married as atheists does this change anything?

Thanks.

 

[Young_Ludovicus]

Aren’t annulments only for people with a sacramental marriage?

 

[LethalMouse]

Aren’t annulments only for people with a sacramental marriage?

^ This generally. The marriages/divorces really only matter if someone involved was Catholic. So as a divorced Catholic, if a Protestant married me and she became Catholic, I would need annulment.

2 always aetheists would need to have their marriage sanctioned. To become sacramental I believe.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Aren’t annulments only for people with a sacramental marriage?

No, a marriage may be valid but not sacramental and a declaration of nullity indicates that the marriage was never valid. Two baptized Christians would have a valid, sacramental marriage as long as there weren’t any impediments such as a previous marriage. A Christian and a Buddhist would have a natural marriage and one that is still valid.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

^ This generally. The marriages/divorces really only matter if someone involved was Catholic. So as a divorced Catholic, if a Protestant married me and she became Catholic, I would need annulment.

2 always aetheists would need to have their marriage sanctioned. To become sacramental I believe.

Not so. See above.

1. Two married atheists who become Catholic would have their marriage convalidated, again as long as there are no impediments to marriage.

Beyond this, and regarding the OP’s question, I defer to 1ke or one of the canon lawyer types.

 

[LethalMouse]

Not so. See above.

1. Two married atheists who become Catholic would have their marriage** convalidated**, again as long as there are no impediments to marriage.

Beyond this, and regarding the OP’s question, I defer to 1ke or one of the canon lawyer types.

“Convalidated” “Sanctioned” you know what I meant, something technicalish

 

[angell1]

Person 1.

Is a Protestant, he married a woman who is divorced they have no children. Surely he would need to leave her and obtain an annulment?

Person 2.

Is a Protestant, she is divorced and married a man who is divorced. They have children, would they have to split up or would they be allowed to live together in a platonic relationship?

If they were married as atheists does this change anything?

Thanks.

the answer to any of those questions is: it depends

there is simply not enough information to determine the validity of any of their previous marriages

the only people who can really answer this is a marriage tribunal

 

[Bruised_Reed]

the answer to any of those questions is: it depends

there is simply not enough information to determine the validity of any of their previous marriages

the only people who can really answer this is a marriage tribunal

And in the latter case a couple would benefit from pastoral advice since it involves children.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Not so. See above.

1. Two married atheists who become Catholic would have their marriage convalidated, again as long as there are no impediments to marriage.

Beyond this, and regarding the OP’s question, I defer to 1ke or one of the canon lawyer types.

“Convalidated” “Sanctioned” you know what I meant, something technicalish

I was wrong. The marriage becomes sacramental when both non-Christians are baptized. They don’t need to do anything else.

 

[Usige]

^ This generally. The marriages/divorces really only matter if someone involved was Catholic. So as a divorced Catholic, if a Protestant married me and she became Catholic, I would need annulment.

2 always aetheists would need to have their marriage sanctioned. To become sacramental I believe.

Not so. See above.

1. Two married atheists who become Catholic would have their marriage convalidated, again as long as there are no impediments to marriage.

Beyond this, and regarding the OP’s question, I defer to 1ke or one of the canon lawyer types.

These are both incorrect.

Two atheist are considered to be in a valid natural marriage. If they both get baptized then it automatically becomes sacramental. Since the marriage is considered to be a valid natural marriage there is no requirement to convalidate the marriage. In fact if the marriage is already valid it is not possible to convalidate it.

If the two atheist divorce and then enter a new marriage the first marriage is still considered valid. The can only remarry if they

1. 
   *]receive a positive decree of nullity (aka an annulment)
   • or -
     *] the marriage is dissolved/set aside through the Peterine or Pauline privilege
   Whether a marriage is sacramental or not has zero bearing on validity. The only bearing it has is if the marriage can be dissolved. Sacramental marriages can never be dissolved, but only found to be null.
   
   While not likely to matter to a protestant, the Church does not consider a couple where both have been previously married and divorced to be in a valid marriage. Whether they are Catholic has little bearing since marriage between any two baptized people is sacramental.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

These are both incorrect.

Two atheist are considered to be in a valid natural marriage. If they both get baptized then it automatically becomes sacramental. Since the marriage is considered to be a valid natural marriage there is no requirement to convalidate the marriage. In fact if the marriage is already valid it is not possible to convalidate it.

If the two atheist divorce and then enter a new marriage the first marriage is still considered valid. The can only remarry if they

1. 
   *]receive a positive decree of nullity (aka an annulment)
   • or -
     *] the marriage is dissolved/set aside through the Peterine or Pauline privilege
   Whether a marriage is sacramental or not has zero bearing on validity. The only bearing it has is if the marriage can be dissolved. Sacramental marriages can never be dissolved, but only found to be null.
   
   While not likely to matter to a protestant, the Church does not consider a couple where both have been previously married and divorced to be in a valid marriage. Whether they are Catholic has little bearing since marriage between any two baptized people is sacramental.

1. 
   It would be helpful if you noted which part of what I wrote was incorrect because I responded to two points, the first by referencing my previous post. Was that incorrect or just the latter?

 

[Usige]

It would be helpful if you noted which part of what I wrote was incorrect because I responded to two points, the first by referencing my previous post. Was that incorrect or just the latter?

The second point about “Two married atheists who become Catholic would have their marriage** convalidated**, again as long as there are no impediments to marriage”.

It looks like I had already started typing when you replied to your own post saying that they need do nothing else since it would become sacramental at their baptism. That is actually correct rather than them needing to convalidate. Dang kids interrupting me while I’m replying.

 

[Usige]

Person 1.

Is a Protestant, he married a woman who is divorced they have no children. Surely he would need to leave her and obtain an annulment?

Person 2.

Is a Protestant, she is divorced and married a man who is divorced. They have children, would they have to split up or would they be allowed to live together in a platonic relationship?

If they were married as atheists does this change anything?

Thanks.

Both cases should start from the point of investigating if the original marriages were null. Strictly speaking the first couple should separate if possible until the status of the wife’s original marriage is determined. If for various reasons this is not practical they could live as bother and sister.

In the second case it is more likely that they would be advised to live in continence until they status of both the original marriages are resolved.

Depending on the parish or diocese there are different procedures for handling these type of cases. In my own parish they will not allow a couple beyond the inquiry phase until they have at least started the formal process for an annulment. If the process is started then they generally will not be allow to be confirmed until their marriage situation is regularized (i.e. positive degrees of nullity and convalidation). One of the reasons for the delay is in case there is a negative decree (i.e. annulment not “granted”). In those case the only choice is to live in perpetual continence or to leave their current legal spouse. Since that can be a make or break deal we try to allow them to make an informed decision if they want to enter the Church with those options.

The real question is what the couples are to do if they find that their original marriages were valid? I know we have at least one member here that has chosen to remain with his legal wife but remain continent until the former marriage ceases through death of their ex.

If they were atheist it opens up the possibility of the marriage being dissolved through the Pauline privilege.