How Would You Handle This?

[pkdsquared]

First off, I should give some background. I am a newbie “revert” to Catholicism and prior to my reversion, I was fairly socially liberal. I was pro-choice in the sense that I was pro CHOICE, not pro-abortion, and while I never would have counselled anyone I know to have one, nor would I have had one myself, I felt that I couldn’t be the judge of people’s circumstances or reasons and only God knew their heart, etc.
That being said, I find myself up against a lot of my friends now that I am Catholic. I find that people tend to discredit things I say now or my opinions based on the fact that I am (what I like to call) “out of the closet.” While I typically try not to engage in these kinds of conversations, I find it frustrating that when I tell a good friend of mine that her doctor shouldn’t have given her an IUD because they are really only approved for women who have had at least one child, I get responses like “oh, well, you’re CATHOLIC, of course you would say that.” Like I am brainwashed or something (note that I didn’t say that she shouldn’t be on birth control at all. And that this information is in the commercials for the IUD.)

Sooo… to my point here. I have a very dear friend who is a very militant atheist and feminist. She is actually getting her degree in women’s studies. I feel like she is baiting me all the time. I try to at least logically present the stance of the Church, but it feels impossible sometimes.
Yesterday, she posted this article on facebook and tagged me saying she was interested in my take on it. I explained to her (after doing research on prolifephysicians.org and some other sites) that an “accidental” abortion happens in some situations, and doctors always try to save the life of the mother; that care was not being denied and that the feminist writer of this article isn’t a doctor and wasn’t in the ER and didn’t really have the qualifications to pass judgement on what is/isn’t medically necessary. I also countered that medicine is very biased pro-choice, and that people who go to Catholic hospitals go there for a reason and it’s not so they can get abortions.
It, of course, didn’t matter what I said, but I’m frustrated beyond reason. She essentially closed the discussion because she said “I just feel for anyone who gets forced into a situation where they have no control over their own reproductive system/life because of a hospital’s religious policies.”
How do you handle something like this? When they are trying at every turn to shoot you down. I WANT to say “Well, you know how you hate religious people who say they’re beliefs are the right belief because they are the ones who believe them? That’s what you do ALL THE TIME.” But I sense that would not be very charitable…

 

[GratefulFred]

A wise old nun taught us, “WHERE IGNORANCE IS BLISS, TIS FOLLY TO BE WISE.”

I try to “Speak the Truth in the Spirit of Love” and not worry whether or not I can see any movement toward a position I know to be the better. Presuming your ‘friend’ is indeed tying to be as honest as she can be, she too would feel the same way I do when trying to get others to see and accept the value of her view and feel frustrated that they just don’t get it.

So one must be prepared to accept the fact that “what we have here is a failure to communicate.” (Extra points if you know what movie has this line).

One choice is to stop speaking and drift apart. Christ told his Apostles to go into villages and preach His Word. If they accept you, stay awhile. If they reject you, shake the dust off your sandals and go elsewhere.

If you feel you still have a chance to break through her barriers, an excellent choice is to pray constantly for an increase in WISDOM for both of you. For a way to explain without alienating and for the ability to understand what you are explaining. The Holy Spirit can do things we cannot ourselves.

 

[beafedor]

First off, I should give some background. I am a newbie “revert” to Catholicism and prior to my reversion, I was fairly socially liberal. I was pro-choice in the sense that I was pro CHOICE, not pro-abortion, and while I never would have counselled anyone I know to have one, nor would I have had one myself, I felt that I couldn’t be the judge of people’s circumstances or reasons and only God knew their heart, etc.

You should join us on this discussion: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=529578

You responded well to your friend. Now ask her to read a few real life abortion stories on this website: silentnomoreawareness.org/
She needs to know how abortion really happens (coercion is very common versus “freedom to choose”) and how it negatively impacts women.
Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women and true feminists oppose abortion.

 

[PAboy57]

dear pkdsquared,

remember that Jesus was not welcome when He began preaching in His local area and He had to leave. the people would only accept that he was the son of Mary and not the Son of God and Mary.

not everyone will accept you as you now are. i have also had to deal with this and in some cases moved on for the time being. keep praying for wisdom for you both was a great suggestion by GratefulFred. These are the prayers most pleasing to God.

still the best way to preach is by how you live your life and what you do. love the sinner but hate the sin. that brings us back to prayer and patience.

I propose regularly praying the Rosary. It is our most powerful pray after the Mass. Our Blessed Mother’s mission is to bring us and others to a closer relationship with Jesus. Ask her to help your friend and she will. She will provide so much grace for you and your friend.

God Bless

 

[surritter]

Could you begin a conversation with her by saying that you agree to set aside any religious references? Suggest to her that we discuss the matter using pure logic. It goes something like this:

Is a fetus a living thing? (Medical science has proven that it is.) If she says no, then go down that path of how it has a heartbeat, fingerprints, etc.

If logic deems that it is a living thing, then is it human? (Medical science has proven that it is.) If she says no, then the burden is on her to explain how it can be a living thing but not human – what the heck is it, a fish, elephant, or what?

So logic has brought us to the point where she must concede that a fetus is a living human being. Now the dicussion turns to a legal one: she apparently believes that a certain human being (the mother) has legal rights that trump another, innocent human being (the fetus). What does logic tell us about this view? Logic says that at this point someone has to decide which persons get to live and which persons get to die. Perhaps she will say that the fetus has fewer rights because it is a dependent of the woman (umbilical cord, etc.). But then point out that newborns are just as dependent; logic would demand that she say it’s just as acceptable to terminate an infant if we’re going by that criteria to establish a ranking of legal rights to live.

But it sounds like your friend has simply allocated the decision about a woman’s right to kill a fetus to the authority of the U.S. Supreme Court. Ask her why? Does she agree with the Supreme Court’s earlier decision regarding slavery (Jim Crow)? Would she bow down to a Supreme Court decision that says anyone over the age of 70 can be legally terminated? What would be her basis for disagreeing on that?

Anyhow, see where the discussion goes. But do you notice that none of this has to do with religion? If she is a true “liberal,” she should be able to set aside personal prejudices about your religious persuasion and listen to logic. That said, don’t be surprised if she gets frustrated by the questions I suggest; in fact, it’s the first few questions that often derail someone who refuses to pit logic against personal whims. The wiring in their brains goes nuts, and they often resort to ad hominem attacks, so be prepared…

 

[white_sheep]

I ALSO feel for anyone who gets forced into a situation where they have no control over their own reproductive system/life because of a hospital’s religious policies.

Of course I am speaking of all the women who have been deemed by the doctor to have had enough children and are given a tubal ligation without their knowledge or consent after delivery via c-section. I wonder if your friend has compassion for those people.

How would I handle this situation? I would consider how these friendships affect the purpose of life, which is of course to know, love, and serve the Lord our God… and make it to heaven. Are you doing them any good? Are they doing you any good? If they are counterproductive then you should make new friends. If you remain friends with them then the general advice is to speak forthrightly about proper morals and treat them charitably. I’d tell your friend with the IUD that I couldn’t be friends with someone who murders their child every month, but that’s just me.

If you are surrounded by destructive influences you should spend more time in prayer, at mass, and increase your penitential practices. It’s just good advice.

 

[Newbie2]

A wise old nun taught us, “WHERE IGNORANCE IS BLISS, TIS FOLLY TO BE WISE.”

I try to “Speak the Truth in the Spirit of Love” and not worry whether or not I can see any movement toward a position I know to be the better. Presuming your ‘friend’ is indeed tying to be as honest as she can be, she too would feel the same way I do when trying to get others to see and accept the value of her view and feel frustrated that they just don’t get it.

So one must be prepared to accept the fact that “what we have here is a failure to communicate.” (Extra points if you know what movie has this line).

One choice is to stop speaking and drift apart. Christ told his Apostles to go into villages and preach His Word. If they accept you, stay awhile. If they reject you, shake the dust off your sandals and go elsewhere.

If you feel you still have a chance to break through her barriers, an excellent choice is to pray constantly for an increase in WISDOM for both of you. For a way to explain without alienating and for the ability to understand what you are explaining. The Holy Spirit can do things we cannot ourselves.

Cool Hand Luke. Classic movie. Christological overtones.

Anyway, to address the OP’s predicament, this is perhaps something you over which you will need to re-examine your friendship boundries. I certainly wouldn’t take very kindly to any one of my friends basically calling me out in a public way i.e. on Facebook and challenging my beliefs.

Perhaps its time to say something like, “Look, this is an area in which we disagree. You know where I stand on this, and it is very important to me. I value your friendship, but at the same time I am asking that we not discuss this topic in the future.”

Sometimes you have to set boundries, even with close friends. If you set boundries there need to be consequences when those boundries are crossed.

Some people we simply will not be able to convince with our words. Live your life as a good Catholic. Maybe someday it she will reflect on her position and with the help of the Holy Spirit, change her mind. Recall St. Paul’s conversion. In the meantime, pray for ther.

 

[mark_a]

. I WANT to say “Well, you know how you hate religious people who say they’re beliefs are the right belief because they are the ones who believe them? That’s what you do ALL THE TIME.”

I think you are brillient!