How would you have responded to this?

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7_Sorrows

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My adult son had a co-worker over one evening. We were talking about religion and churches and his friend asked me what church I attend. I replied “I am Catholic. I attend the Catholic church”.

He looked shocked and said “I thought you were Christian!”

I answered “I am Christian.”

He then said he had been baptized Catholic and confirmed, but he didn’t believe in worshipping Mary or worshipping the saints. I just sadly looked at him and thought to myself another lost Catholic. He attends a non-denominational church and I am sure they love it when ex-Catholics bash their faith or are so ignorant of it. I wanted to tell him he has it all wrong about Mary and the Saints, but he was speaking proudly and I thought to myself what is the use.
 
Yeah. Probably did what you could. No sense wondering what the perfect mix would have been. Or the perfect words. I mean we have to rely that the Holy Spirit’s hanging around for that. That He’s inspiring you with just the right level of defense. So you don’t overdo it. And end up with a deep argument. One the keeps everyone stuck in their own seats.

Peace 7S. Hope things are going Ok for you.

Your friend,

Trident
 
Trident_H said:
Yeah. Probably did what you could. No sense wondering what the perfect mix would have been. Or the perfect words. I mean we have to rely that the Holy Spirit’s hanging around for that. That He’s inspiring you with just the right level of defense. So you don’t overdo it. And end up with a deep argument. One the keeps everyone stuck in their own seats.

Peace 7S. Hope things are going Ok for you.

Your friend,

Trident
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👋 Hello! I just don’t understand why if you say you are Catholic, they don’t see you as a Christian!
 
7_Sorrows said:
👋 Hello! I just don’t understand why if you say you are Catholic, they don’t see you as a Christian!
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There’s a bunch of crazy ideas out there that Catholics get cut off the branch because we do this that or the other thing. None of which are true. Just ignorance really. It’s probably just so they can continue doing what they’re doing without digging in too deep with the competition. I don’t know. Too bad really. Because we could all get along so much better without that.
 
In the “Latino” orbit particularly, “Christian” is frequently used as a synonym for “Protestant.”

There is nothing to be said unless the person is open of mind, and, sadly, de-converts are often more stalwart against their former faith than anybody.

All one can really do is pray and move on, sadly, IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA
 
7_Sorrows said:
He then said he had been baptized Catholic and confirmed, but he didn’t believe in worshipping Mary or worshipping the saints. I just sadly looked at him and thought to myself another lost Catholic.
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At that point I would have said “I don’t either.”
 
7_Sorrows said:
I wanted to tell him he has it all wrong about Mary and the Saints, but he was speaking proudly and I thought to myself what is the use.
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The prudential thing to do might have been to say nothing. But if I were in that situation and thought it worth responding I’d have just asked him questions. I’d ask, ‘why do you think Catholics worship Mary or Saints’? I’m sure I’d also ask, ‘what is worship’? The reason I’m sure of that is because this claim all hinges on what worship is and most people who make this claim can’t really define worship. Chances are he’ll tie himself in a knot trying to justify his position.

I think the best strategy is the Socratic method. Get the other person to commit to a claim that you can then undermine. Some people are slippery and will jump from topic to topic. But if they aren’t like that you may at least plant a seed.
 
I generally, when approached by a confirmed Catholic that has left the Church, sadly shake my head and say something like, “It is so sad that people leave the Catholic Church without knowing what she really teaches. So sad.”
 
I would tackle it from right outside the box as follows!
  • build on what he has. (I’ve been where he is anyway. It’s not a foreign or even an inferior halting-place except for minor details.)
  • enthuse about Holy Scriptures
  • praise the works of God in both of your lives and the world.
  • mention in passing with a grin that some Catholics honour her and them and stress that this is a follow-on from more essential beliefs and not the other way round. (I am not much “into” Mary and saints yet myself.)
  • have empathy for the fact that the Church (such as She was to him at the time) didn’t catechise him much. It’s great that his new pals are taking the trouble however half-baked it might be on the occasional point.
  • The fact that he mentioned this early on suggests he has had it drummed into him this is frightfully important to his new pals. The best lines of reasoning are not head-to-head ones at this juncture. Remember he’s on our side already!
  • Piggy back on the fact that he would like to “witness to” you and return the complement by testifying to how the Lord has been kind to you. Swop excellent treasures between you on equal terms!
 
Maybe a way to bring out the truth in him would be to ask “Do you mean you worshipped Mary when you were catholic?”😃 If he did then he wasn’t doing it as a catholic but he did that on his own. If he answers no then you could always say “I didn’t think so and I don’t know any catholics who do.” Maybe he will think about the truth of the matter and not about what he was told the truth.:rolleyes:
 
maryjk said:
I generally, when approached by a confirmed Catholic that has left the Church, sadly shake my head and say something like, “It is so sad that people leave the Catholic Church without knowing what she really teaches. So sad.”
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that is exactly what I was thinking, but I did not voice it. He sounded so sure of himself and then he and others like him misinform others when they attend protestant churches and are probably welcomed with open arms as another Catholic who saw the light. I had just picked up two books from the Newman Center called The Pillar of Fire and Truth (I hope I have that right) and I think the author was Patrick Madrid. I just tried to find them and can’t right now to confirm title and author. Then I wasn’t sure if he would even take the time to read it or if he would understand it.
There are so many out there like him. I always thought the Catholics Come Home program was a good way to bring Catholics back to the Church. I think it should be ongoing.
 
Thanks for all your responses. They are all very good. It was late when I came home and I was already tired and just didn’t have it in me
to begin a discussion with him, but I did feel offended when he remarked he thought I was Christian. And I think he meant to offend. Insinuating a Catholic is not Christian. I had planned on mailing a copy of A Pillar of Fire and Truth to a Baptist friend and I was afraid he might not return the book.
Hopefully, the next time he is over I will be prepared with some of the responses you all have given me. He is the father of a 2 year old who has custody so many days a week and is separated or divorced from the Mom. I am the only Catholic where I live. So I am encouraged he seems to be seeking God out.
 
TARRAT said:
Maybe a way to bring out the truth in him would be to ask “Do you mean you worshipped Mary when you were catholic?”😃 If he did then he wasn’t doing it as a catholic but he did that on his own. If he answers no then you could always say “I didn’t think so and I don’t know any catholics who do.” Maybe he will think about the truth of the matter and not about what he was told the truth.:rolleyes:
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Even if he says yes because that’s what he was taught, it’s a good way of broaching the subject and that of catechesis at the same time.

He may even have had it drummed into him in his previous Catholic days that he wasn’t to trust lay people like you helping catechise him - only teachers or priests.
 
You can ask your son what it means to say they believe in someone who can assure eternal life? Would it be OK to tell Jesus that he only believes some of the things he says.? If he then responded that…

“I would prefer that the people that believe me give me the benefit of the doubt in some things, because some things are not of this world’s comprehension. They are a mystery in this world. If you do not believe, then you don’t trust me. I have come to ensure that heaven is populated by those who will not betray me there, so those that wholly believe me here and prove it out, qualify”

Many people have set themselves up with Churches who insist it is OK to believe in only some things. These ministers have received ordination by the devil, and they steer others to falsehood. Why should Christ give out the gift of inestimable value to those who are complacent in their lukewarmness?. Your son’s baptism was a promise to believe Christ wholly, not partially. He is at the right place, next is to take that step in his Faith.

If a man owned a jewelry store, and wished to hire someone as an employee, should it be a concern for the owner to hear from him that he believes that sales are important, that good relations with clients are important, that cleanliness are important, but not sure if the doors should be locked is important.?
 
=7 Sorrows;13381689]My adult son had a co-worker over one evening. We were talking about religion and churches and his friend asked me what church I attend. I replied “I am Catholic. I attend the Catholic church”.
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He looked shocked and said “I thought you were Christian!”
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I answered “I am Christian.”
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He then said he had been baptized Catholic and confirmed, but he didn’t believe in worshipping Mary or worshipping the saints. I just sadly looked at him and thought to myself another lost Catholic. He attends a non-denominational church and I am sure they love it when ex-Catholics bash their faith or are so ignorant of it. I wanted to tell him he has it all wrong about Mary and the Saints, but he was speaking proudly and I thought to myself what is the use.
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We Catholics DO NOT “worship” Mary

We Venerate, honor, respect and even love Her; BUT "Worship is reserved to GOD alone.👍

AND this practice of veneration and praying “To” Mary and the Saints is AN OPTIONAL personal piety practice. We Do however HAVE to fulfill the Marian Holy-Day’s. as agrave moral responsibility.

We do not and cannot attache the term “worship” with ANY Marian practice.

From our Catholic Catechism

** 2105** The duty of offering God genuine worship concerns man both individually and socially. This is "the traditional Catholic teaching on the moral duty of individuals and societies toward the true religion and the one Church of Christ." By constantly evangelizing men, the Church works toward enabling them “to infuse the Christian spirit into the mentality and mores, laws and structures of the communities in which [they] live.” The social duty of Christians is to respect and awaken in each man the love of the true and the good. It requires them to make known the worship of the one true religion which subsists in the Catholic and apostolic Church. Christians are called to be the light of the world. Thus, the Church shows forth the kingship of Christ over all creation and in particular over human societies.

**2135 **“You shall worship the Lord your God" (Mt 4:10). Adoring God, praying to him, offering him the worship that belongs to him, fulfilling the promises and vows made to him are acts of the virtue of religion which fall under obedience to the first commandment.”

God Bless you,

Patrick
 
Sometimes it is difficult to think of an answer on the spur of the moment because of the surprise element.

But I think the response I would give to anyone who misrepresented my faith on any issue would be…“you must believe in the Easter bunny too.” Then when they would say … “what do you mean?” Then you have their attention to explain to them what you want them to know.
 
fred_conty said:
Sometimes it is difficult to think of an answer on the spur of the moment because of the surprise element.

But I think the response I would give to anyone who misrepresented my faith on any issue would be…“you must believe in the Easter bunny too.” Then when they would say … “what do you mean?” Then you have their attention to explain to them what you want them to know.
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Hopefully, the next time I see him I won’t be so tired and he won’t be distracted by tv.
 
My stock response is like this, “We don’t worship Mary, saints or statues, but this is not the time to talk about it. How about I take you to lunch next week- what’s a good day for you?”
 
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