How would you respond to this question?

[CopticChristian]

Funny you should say that. The text reflects precisely what the christian apologists bring up when they attempt to explain away the problem of evil.

Capoly,

Other than supporting homosexual marriage and opposing the Catholic Church is it fair to say that you believe…that the world is a closed system" in the sense that “nothing that is not a part of the natural world affects it.” As such, “naturalism implies that there are no supernatural entities,” such as gods, angels, demons, ghosts, or other spirits, “or at least none that actually exercises its power to affect the natural world.”

You believe that billions of people invest incalculable hours making fruitless pleas to nonexistent gods, participating in lavish rituals with no tangible effects, and whittling away tight budgets to support extravagant religious institutions or “spiritual advisors.”

You believe that antiquated religious ideas lead people to impose needless hardships on themselves and others, to rationalize discrimination and other forms of mistreatment, and to hasten environmental destruction because they believe that “the end of the world” is imminent anyway. And for every outward manifestation of wasteful, counterproductive, and even downright harmful activity motivated only by religious belief, there are countless instances that are not nearly so obvious.

You believe that religious belief has exacted a toll on people’s emotional well-being as well. Just how much energy has been drained searching for meaning where none is to be found, or been squandered on false hopes and unwarranted fears?

Am I on the right track here as to what you believe?

 

[capoly]

Capoly,

Other than supporting homosexual marriage and opposing the Catholic Church is it fair to say that you believe…that the world is a closed system" in the sense that “nothing that is not a part of the natural world affects it.” As such, “naturalism implies that there are no supernatural entities,” such as gods, angels, demons, ghosts, or other spirits, “or at least none that actually exercises its power to affect the natural world.”

You believe that billions of people invest incalculable hours making fruitless pleas to nonexistent gods, participating in lavish rituals with no tangible effects, and whittling away tight budgets to support extravagant religious institutions or “spiritual advisors.”

You believe that antiquated religious ideas lead people to impose needless hardships on themselves and others, to rationalize discrimination and other forms of mistreatment, and to hasten environmental destruction because they believe that “the end of the world” is imminent anyway. And for every outward manifestation of wasteful, counterproductive, and even downright harmful activity motivated only by religious belief, there are countless instances that are not nearly so obvious.

You believe that religious belief has exacted a toll on people’s emotional well-being as well. Just how much energy has been drained searching for meaning where none is to be found, or been squandered on false hopes and unwarranted fears?

Am I on the right track here as to what you believe?

Yes and no. I do not see the world in black and white. I can and do recognize that people do a whole lot of good in the name of their deity, which cannot be (and should not be) denied. The point is that the religious world-view is not logically necessary for such good, altruistic behavior. And there is a lot of hostility coming from religion, too. Both parties assert that they are the one and only recipients of Truth ™ and the other party is wrong, and heretical. Religion is mainly divisive. It creates an “us” and “them” group where the “us” is always right and the “them” is always wrong. Look at all the religious wars. So I advise you too look at the bigger picture, do not draw hasty and premature conclusions about other people’s views and motives.

 

[CopticChristian]

Yes and no. I do not see the world in black and white. I can and do recognize that people do a whole lot of good in the name of their deity, which cannot be (and should not be) denied. The point is that the religious world-view is not logically necessary for such good, altruistic behavior. And there is a lot of hostility coming from religion, too. Both parties assert that they are the one and only recipients of Truth ™ and the other party is wrong, and heretical. Religion is mainly divisive. It creates an “us” and “them” group where the “us” is always right and the “them” is always wrong. Look at all the religious wars. So I advise you too look at the bigger picture, do not draw hasty and premature conclusions about other people’s views and motives.

Cap,

Thanks for verifying what I thought was true. Your thinking is in the process of being formed and you have found what you think is something that you should test. I know how you think. I know what your mind is like. Anyone that wants to understand your thought process should visit and study this website.

infidels.org/infidels/

I believe in testing. I am a student of thought. I believe in the Meta model of the mind that tells me that what I believe I should test and what I test should yield the same results. With this notion in mind let me tell you that you are no different than me with one exception.

You need a structure to frame your thoughts and you have found this rebel site that gives you the feeling of power as you test your thoughts, many on this site, to see the response. Anyone that reads your postings will see that. You lack confidence. I understand that. I can read between the lines of what you write.

While you are testing what you found, I tested what I was taught. You look to a website that gives you a feeling of knowledge, I look to the Church that has given me sanity in this crazy world. I have been challenged as to what I was taught and what I learned and you should do the same.

Your anti-theist approach suits your mindset now as I suspect you are not very old, at least in mind. Your anger is showing, anger is a difficult emotion to understand. I understand anger as a motive for action and sometimes it can and does cause creativity in the arts and language…

So here is what I say…know that I see your process of trying to understand a challenge for you and pray that you realize that unless you spend some time learning and not try to teach then your years will be filled with misery…

I will keep posting, as will others and I suggest that you realize that there are some pretty smart fellas on this site…me…I am just a toad of a brain that writes and reads and has a few things to say now and then…welcome to Catholic Answers…

 

[capoly]

Your anger is showing, anger is a difficult emotion to understand.

Don’t psychoanalyze me, because you don’t have the data. This nonsense of “anger” comes up periodically. Let me explain. It is a logical nonsense to feel anger toward a being whose existence one does not believe in. Not long ago I ran into an idiot, who answered that obviously “deep down” I believe in God and that I am “angry” at God for some reason. Naturally, I terminated that discussion immediately.

Also I am not angry at catholics in general. Mostly I feel sad when I see the amount if frustration, shame, slf-loathing exhibited by many posters on this forum. They are ashamed at acting out their natural desires. Poor buggers.

 

[paul_c]

Don’t psychoanalyze me, because you don’t have the data. This nonsense of “anger” comes up periodically. Let me explain. It is a logical nonsense to feel anger toward a being whose existence one does not believe in. Not long ago I ran into an idiot, who answered that obviously “deep down” I believe in God and that I am “angry” at God for some reason. Naturally, I terminated that discussion immediately.

Are you always so quick to call others who don’t agree with you “idiots.” And note, that more than one of us has noted your anger. Just consider another point, is it logically consistent to spend so much time arguing about something you don’ t believe in. Why spend any time considering it at all if its of no consequence?

Also I am not angry at Catholics in general. Mostly I feel sad when I see the amount if frustration, shame, self-loathing exhibited by many posters on this forum. They are ashamed at acting out their natural desires. Poor buggers.

Not every “natural desire” is good for you or for others. Some people have a desire to steal. Should they act on it? Others have a desire to rape. Should they act on it? And just like you, their conscience bothers them when they do things contrary to God’s will. Some are better at suppressing this than others. You denigrate religion, but religion provides that moral compass that leads to personal happiness and growth and steers you away from those desires that wound you and others, body and soul.

 

[tbmeg]

I think not being told directly is part of the consequence of being thrown out of the Garden of Eden.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they believed that they could do something without God and be perfectly fine. This sin is passed down to all of us. We think we are great in and of ourselves, but one of the reasons for our suffering and exile is to remind us that we depend on God and God alone for everything. We need to become like beggars in front of God. If God just handed us the answers, we wouldn’t recognize our desperate need. We need to be “hungry” in order to recognize where we truly belong - with God.

I totally agree with this. God allows suffering so that we´ll be infinitely dependent on him not necessarily because he´s punishing us from our sins. Imagin a world with no suffering, God will be forgotten the next minute! If all illnesses were punishments for our sins, why doesnt God take them away when we confess?

And by the way, God also cures cancer. There´re numerous testimonies on the internet of people who claim God cured them from cancer.

 

[capoly]

Just consider another point, is it logically consistent to spend so much time arguing about something you don’ t believe in. Why spend any time considering it at all if its of no consequence?

Yes, because I do have some time to spare, and I wish to help those whose mindset has not calcified yet, who are not yet beyond redemption. It’s all based on the desire to help. When I see the enormous amount of shame and frustration because those poor people were taught that their natural bodily functions are “shameful” and should be repressed, I have this desire to help them. Even if one starts to think for herself, my effort was not in vain.

Not every “natural desire” is good for you or for others. Some people have a desire to steal. Should they act on it? Others have a desire to rape. Should they act on it?

Acts which are harmful to others should not be confused with beneficial and neutral acts. But I guess, you cannot see that. Someone said that even beneficial actions can be “evil”, even if the means employed are beneficial. What a horrible, distorted view of reality!

 

[paul_c]

Yes, because I do have some time to spare, and I wish to help those whose mindset has not calcified yet, who are not yet beyond redemption. It’s all based on the desire to help. When I see the enormous amount of shame and frustration because those poor people were taught that their natural bodily functions are “shameful” and should be repressed, I have this desire to help them. Even if one starts to think for herself, my effort was not in vain.

So you view yourself as some kind of savior? What are your credentials for that job? Don’t be so condescending. You have no idea who you are talking to on these pages and to assume that only those who share your opinions are able to think for themselves is laughable. And for the record, natural bodily functions are only shameful when used in inappropriate ways. For instance, sex is a natural bodily function but when it is used in rape, it is a crime.

Acts which are harmful to others should not be confused with beneficial and neutral acts. But I guess, you cannot see that. Someone said that even beneficial actions can be “evil”, even if the means employed are beneficial. What a horrible, distorted view of reality!

Be specific. What beneficial or neutral acts are you claiming the church says are evil and in what context?

 

[Irishgal49]

What about this choice?

1. People who die of cancer get what they deserve just like everybody else. We just don’t see it ourselves since justice is ultimately fulfilled after death.

Wow so that little 9 year old I saw on TV who is dying of cancer is getting what she deserves? Really???

I smoke. If I found out I had cancer I’d agree that I have no cause to whine. But little children?

Either one or the other statements must be true to maintain this assertion:
God is all loving

Either
God is not all powerful
or
God just doesn’t give a rip.

I choose to believe that in giving up some of his power God is not all powerful. In order to be all powerful he’d have to take away our right to choose (free will). I also do not believe in predestination otherwise, why live? I don’t see how free will can work if your fate is already determined. Why watch a game if I already know the outcome? Rather pointless.

 

[paul_c]

Wow so that little 9 year old I saw on TV who is dying of cancer is getting what she deserves? Really???

I smoke. If I found out I had cancer I’d agree that I have no cause to whine. But little children?

Either one or the other statements must be true to maintain this assertion:
God is all loving

Either
God is not all powerful
or
God just doesn’t give a rip.

I choose to believe that in giving up some of his power God is not all powerful. In order to be all powerful he’d have to take away our right to choose (free will). I also do not believe in predestination otherwise, why live? I don’t see how free will can work if your fate is already determined. Why watch a game if I already know the outcome? Rather pointless.

God is all powerful. He doesn’t choose to use His power in every situation to allow men free will. But He could

 

[Marc_Anthony]

Wow so that little 9 year old I saw on TV who is dying of cancer is getting what she deserves? Really???

This is a complete misunderstanding of my statement.

 

[HalynaHanya]

I love the answer that the person with the cancer cure was aborted.

Also, I came across a similar question elsewhere, that God gives us free will and free choices. If we choose to put chemicals in our water and our food and smoke, don’t blame Him.

 

[ccmnxc]

I have a couple responses.

1. If He gives us the cure for cancer, He may as well give us the solution to the rest of our problems.
2. He doesn’t give us the cure, because He allows cancer. I’d say a more appropriate question is, “Why does God allow cancer?”