Human omni-science!

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**Vera Ljuba ** Time is the property of the STEM (space-time-energy-matter). It is nonsensical to talk about time outside the universe. It is exactly as nonsensical as talking about the “other side” of the Mobius strip.
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How do you know for certain that time is the monopoly of this universe?
 
tonyrey said:
How do you know for certain that time is the monopoly of this universe?
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I would say that time is the fundamental variable in our universe. By fundamental I mean it is crucial for explaining motion and cannot be emergent.
 
ISTM that **collinear **time, as experienced by our bodies, is powered by entropy.

At the speed of light, which matter cannot attain and so there is no entropy, time goes to zero.

Every process we observe, or can devise for the measurement of time requires entropy.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
. . . **collinear **time, as experienced by our bodies, is powered by entropy. . .
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To expand on this:

Entropy is the measure of the disorder in a system.

According to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, entropy increases within a closed system and establishes the “arrow of time”. A video of balloon fragments followed by a popping sound and images of a balloon bouncing into a Rose bush is understood to be running backwards, because things don’t happen the other way around. There is a tendency for things that are organized, to become random.

In an open system like our body, we see the reverse happening. There is obviously greater organization developmentally from the moment of conception to the formation of an adult body. This is at the expense of greater disorganization around us as we get, cook and digest our food, breathe and drink.

In a condition of pure randomness there is no time.

I would like to speculate beyond this in regards to the organizing principles that lie behind the formation of the most elementary particles and how they became increasingly organized with the existence of new, more complex beings, until they resulted in our own individual existence, but I will leave it as this simple observation of how things are.

All this said, it is our spirit which experiences the participation of our bodies within space-time. The spirit and the body forms a unity, inseparable except at our death. This unity establishes ourselves as eternal beings set in time. The manifestation of our soul in time gives our life its quality of “past-present-future”. Within physics there are trajectories, and a before and an after only where a person designates a place in space-time. It is a human spirit who constitutes a frame of reference.
 
tonyrey said:
How do you know for certain that time is the monopoly of this universe?
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The universe, by definition, is the whole body of things and phenomena, observed or postulated. So any space or time which you conjecture is part of the universe by definition.
 
STT said:
I would say that time is the fundamental variable in our universe. By fundamental I mean it is crucial for explaining motion and cannot be emergent.
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“our universe” implies that it is not the sole form of reality…
 
Aloysium said:
To expand on this:

Entropy is the measure of the disorder in a system.

According to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, entropy increases within a closed system and establishes the “arrow of time”. A video of balloon fragments followed by a popping sound and images of a balloon bouncing into a Rose bush is understood to be running backwards, because things don’t happen the other way around. There is a tendency for things that are organized, to become random.

In an open system like our body, we see the reverse happening. There is obviously greater organization developmentally from the moment of conception to the formation of an adult body. This is at the expense of greater disorganization around us as we get, cook and digest our food, breathe and drink.

In a condition of pure randomness there is no time.

I would like to speculate beyond this in regards to the organizing principles that lie behind the formation of the most elementary particles and how they became increasingly organized with the existence of new, more complex beings, until they resulted in our own individual existence, but I will leave it as this simple observation of how things are.

All this said, it is our spirit which experiences the participation of our bodies within space-time. The spirit and the body forms a unity, inseparable except at our death. This unity establishes ourselves as eternal beings set in time. The manifestation of our soul in time gives our life its quality of “past-present-future”. Within physics there are trajectories, and a before and an after only where a person designates a place in space-time. It is a human spirit who constitutes a frame of reference.
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Precisely! Pascal made the point that the universe is unaware of our existence.
 
I should add that “omni-science” is taken to mean knowledge in its fullest sense which surpasses human science - unless you’re an atheist.
 
GEddie said:
But we are teasing levels of meaning out of words and ideas that may not contain them.

ICXC NIKA
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“may” is the key word. To exclude the very possibility of other forms of reality is an example of unjustified dogmatism. Belief in God implies a level of meaning which isn’t conveyed by human language:
Rudolf Otto was one of the most influential thinkers about religion in the first half of the twentieth century. He is best known for his analysis of the experience that, in his view, underlies all religion. He calls this experience “numinous,” and says it has three components. These are often designated with a Latin phrase: mysterium tremendum et fascinans. As mysterium, the numinous is “wholly other”-- entirely different from anything we experience in ordinary life.
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www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln101/Otto.htm
 
STT said:
I would say that time is the fundamental variable in our universe. By fundamental I mean it is crucial for explaining motion and cannot be emergent.
“our universe” implies that it is not the sole form of reality…
What this has to do with what I mentioned?
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The topic is not time but how you know for certain that time is the monopoly of this universe, i.e. that time doesn’t exist in other universes?
 
Omniscience is not a composite word containing “SCIENCE”. Maybe you think that Omni-POTENCE is the description of someone who has “unlimited sexual prowess”? I would not be surprised.
 
tonyrey said:
“observed or postulated” by homo sapiens who is not omniscient.
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Through our mortal lives it looks like time is important, but of course God is outside time, something that no human can fathom.
 
tonyrey said:
“observed or postulated” by homo sapiens who is not omniscient.
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Don’t know what omniscience has to do with the price of fish. We’re not talking about knowledge here, just definitions. By definition the universe is all things and phenomena, whether observed or merely conjectured.

Here’s another definition. God is the creator of all. So time cannot preexist God or else God would be contingent on and would be created in time. Therefore God, as the only necessary being, created time along with everything else, and that’s known as the universe.

So whether you take a secular or religious stance, it’s axiomatic that all time and all space are part of the universe. That’s why it’s certain, because it’s by definition. Just like it’s certain that all bachelors are unmarried, because it’s by definition that all bachelors are unmarried.
 
inocente said:
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Here’s another definition. God is the creator of all. So time cannot preexist or God would be contingent on and would be created in time. Therefore if God is a necessary being then created time along with everything else, and that’s the universe.
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The human-known universe.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
The human-known universe.
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The universe is the set of all things and all phenomena, whether or not they are known. It’s not as if all the other billions of galaxies only popped into existence and became part of the universe the moment we knew of them. There must be an uncountable number of things we don’t know about, but they are still part of the universe because that’s how it’s defined.

I’m curious why you want it otherwise. I mean by definition there is no thing and no phenomenon outside the universe (and God is neither), so why do you feel the need to redefine the word?
 
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