Husband talking about the Greek Orthodox priesthood

[Poor_Soul]

To Alex and Philip,

Just because The Catholic Church keeps a dialoge with and takes instruction from a Schismatic Church does not mean said Church is not in schism. Furthermore just because a Church is in schism does not mean everyone that is within said Church is a schismatic.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

***Wounds to unity ***

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born** into** these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

The Catholic Church does not consider those who are born into the Eastern Orthodox Church or who join her before joing the RC as schismatic!

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

***Who belongs to the Catholic Church? ***

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

HOWEVER those that ARE Roman Catholic (our OP and her husband) and leave The Catholic Church to be members of the Eastern Orthodox who are considered to be in a IMPERFECT communion with The Catholic Church because they are in SCHISM will in turn become SCHISMATICS and will be committing a sin against the faith.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith;** schism **is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11

Eastern Orthodox and any Catholic that leaves The Catholic Church and joins the Eastern Orthodox

 

[TrueLight]

BTW, the Orthodox do have a Western Rite where the TLM is used (minus a few later Latin accoutrements! ).

Have a great day!

Alex

Yes someone did mention that to me, actually.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

To Alex and Philip,

Just because The Catholic Church keeps a dialoge with and takes instruction from a Schismatic Church does not mean said Church is not in schism. Furthermore just because a Church is in schism does not mean everyone that is within said Church is a schismatic.

The Catholic Church does not consider those who are born into the Eastern Orthodox Church or who join her before joing the RC as schismatic!

HOWEVER those that ARE Roman Catholic (our OP and her husband) and leave The Catholic Church to be members of the Eastern Orthodox who are considered to be in a IMPERFECT communion with The Catholic Church because they are in SCHISM will in turn become SCHISMATICS and will be committing a sin against the faith.

Eastern Orthodox and any Catholic that leaves The Catholic Church and joins the Eastern Orthodox

Now, I’m not going so far as to suggest that Rome is taking instruction from the ROC!

It’s really about the ill-informed “ost-politik” (which, BTW, Blessed John Paul the Great absolutely refused to allow the Polish Church to be part of).

And I’m not questioning papal authority, and neither is the Master Beadsman (you should investigate his work with rosaries - he outclasses, by far, so many RC rosary-makers!).

What EC’s are saying is that it is disgraceful for the See of Peter to be, on the one hand, asserting, rightly, its prerogatives of Primacy in and over the Catholic Church while, on the other, be seen to be bending over backwards in agreement with Orthodox Church leaders with respect to a) how EC Churches do and can govern themselves by way of a patriarchate; b) put limits on EC Churches’ influence in their own territory.

In that case, it would seem that Rome is tacitly saying, by way of its own authority, that EC Churches are meant to disappear, were a bad historical idea of church union, and so are a real problem in the way of East-West reconciliation.

RC ecumenical politicians are to be, well, at least have a finger shaken at them for that.

Do you agree with Rome’s ost-politik? You didn’t answer my question before you went on your papal rant . . .

If you could say you agree with our position, I could have a really good long weekend . . . sniff . . .

Also, I know a good number of RC’s who have joined the Orthodox Church. It doesn’t matter to them what Rome or anyone thinks of them. From their POV, they have joined the true Catholic Church while leaving behind Rome that lies in heresy and darkness. RC’s can then call you what they like - what does it matter since they are outside the true Church? That is the harsh reality of the situation.

Rome should perhaps wake up to it itself.

Alex

 

[crazzeto]

Now, I’m not going so far as to suggest that Rome is taking instruction from the ROC!

It’s really about the ill-informed “ost-politik” (which, BTW, Blessed John Paul the Great absolutely refused to allow the Polish Church to be part of).

And I’m not questioning papal authority, and neither is the Master Beadsman (you should investigate his work with rosaries - he outclasses, by far, so many RC rosary-makers!).

What EC’s are saying is that it is disgraceful for the See of Peter to be, on the one hand, asserting, rightly, its prerogatives of Primacy in and over the Catholic Church while, on the other, be seen to be bending over backwards in agreement with Orthodox Church leaders with respect to a) how EC Churches do and can govern themselves by way of a patriarchate; b) put limits on EC Churches’ influence in their own territory.

In that case, it would seem that Rome is tacitly saying, by way of its own authority, that EC Churches are meant to disappear, were a bad historical idea of church union, and so are a real problem in the way of East-West reconciliation.

RC ecumenical politicians are to be, well, at least have a finger shaken at them for that.

Do you agree with Rome’s ost-politik? You didn’t answer my question before you went on your papal rant . . .

If you could say you agree with our position, I could have a really good long weekend . . . sniff . . .

Also, I know a good number of RC’s who have joined the Orthodox Church. It doesn’t matter to them what Rome or anyone thinks of them. From their POV, they have joined the true Catholic Church while leaving behind Rome that lies in heresy and darkness. RC’s can then call you what they like - what does it matter since they are outside the true Church? That is the harsh reality of the situation.

Rome should perhaps wake up to it itself.

Alex

Alex,

Certainly I pray such is not the case. Rather, I would expect to see that should there ever be a corporal reuniting with various EO churches they would be welcomed in loveingly and join, not replace current EC churches as “idependant” Orthodox churches in full corperal communion with the See of Peter.

I would consider it very tragic if anything such as you suggest were to happen. I have to beleive the Potiffs also feel this way. I think rather what we see, is a very gracious extending of our open arms to our seperated bretheren.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

No one is against graciously extending hands etc.

What I say is only what is the case - the UGCC cannot have its patriarchate acknowledged because this will offend the ROC who sees Ukraine as part of its Orthodox canonical territory.

And the UGCC has had limitations placed on it in terms of spreading out throughout Ukraine (not that it really cares about such limitations).

I tried, for several years now, to give the benefit of the doubt to Rome.

Now I just doubt Rome.

Alex

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

 

[5Loaves]

Off topic, can someone please explain to me what this smilie called “Stick Out Tongue” is supposed to mean? Someone used it in a post to me and I thought they were literally sticking their tongue out at me.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

Off topic, can someone please explain to me what this smilie called “Stick Out Tongue” is supposed to mean? Someone used it in a post to me and I thought they were literally sticking their tongue out at me.

Sometimes its used as playful banter but this time it was used because I made a mistake and had to put something in since you cant delete posts. Next time though I will use a better one my apologies.

 

[Hesychios]

Hi Alex,

And the UGCC has had limitations placed on it in terms of spreading out throughout Ukraine (not that it really cares about such limitations).

Could you please explain about the limitations (or attempted limitations) on spreading within Ukraine?

I missed that somehow. It is something I never heard of …

Thanks

 

[Poor_Soul]

If you could say you agree with our position, I could have a really good long weekend . . . sniff . . .

Yes Alex I would agree that your upset is a valid one. I’m sorry that the EC’s in communion with Rome are being treated with less respect than ROC. It’s not right at all.

Also, I know a good number of RC’s who have joined the Orthodox Church. It doesn’t matter to them what Rome or anyone thinks of them. From their POV, they have joined the true Catholic Church while leaving behind Rome that lies in heresy and darkness. RC’s can then call you what they like - what does it matter since they are outside the true Church? That is the harsh reality of the situation.

I know it is Alex. Yet I’m just one RC doing his Catholic duty and advising another RC (the OP) of the potential sin against the faith that they would be making if they left. What friend would I be if I didnt?

No ceremony, no courtship… (love that movie)

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Michael,

Hi Alex, Could you please explain about the limitations (or attempted limitations) on spreading within Ukraine?

I missed that somehow. It is something I never heard of …

May I ask what particular Church you belonged to when you were Catholic? If that is too personal a question, I understand if you don’t answer. I’m just asking so I can reasonably assess your level of knowledge about the Catholic Churches.

Thank you.

Blessings,
Marduk