Hypocrisy?

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Irish_Eyes_826

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I’ve been reading about the ongoing talks between the Vatican and SSPX. I find it amazing that the Vatican will welcome them back with open arms. They have denied the teachings of the church and yet the Vatican wants them back. Yet, the Vatican has no trouble defrocking and excommunicating Father Roy Bourgeois for simply voicing his belief that women should be ordained. He didn’t start a new church; he didn’t ordain bishops without Vatican approval; he simply questioned the way the Church goes about ordinations. It seems you have to be a right-wing traditionalist to get any respect from Rome. It is very sad. 😦 Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems hypocritical to me.
 
Have the hierarchy and priests of the F.S.S.P.X. actually gone so far as to totally deny tenets of the faith? Refusing to comply with the purely pastoral dictates of Vatican II is rather different from openly condemning the patriarchal nature of the priesthood. 🙂
 
I think you are not well informed about the nature of dispute with SSPX and womyn priest supporters. Also, the church doesn’t follow the secular ‘right wing’ - ‘left wing’ classifications. There is orthodox and heterodox.
 
Welcoming them with open arms is loaded language and wrong.
The SSPX have never denied fundamentals tenets of the faith.
There was no “welcoming [them] back” since the SSPX are not away; just suspended.
“The Vatican” is liberal talk intended to demonize. The Vatican is a state. Talk about who you mean.
Fr Bourgeois was obstinate in his refusal to submit.
He was also not simply just voicing an opinion, he went further than that.
Trust “the Vatican” to know more about both situations than you or I do.
 
I’ve long lost my faith in the Church to know what is best for me.
Additionally, I fail to see how a patriarchal priesthood is truly a tenet of believing in Christ. ducking for cover
However, thank you for helping me see that they have not made any heretical claims and that their excommunication comes from pastoral issues. All in all, I think it is best for them to have their canonical status gradually restored. Do to certain issues, I have no interest in associating with the group anyway. I was just curious about the way they have been handled.
 
Irish_Eyes_826 said:
I’ve long lost my faith in the Church to know what is best for me.
Additionally, I fail to see how a patriarchal priesthood is truly a tenet of believing in Christ. ducking for cover
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lol, you’ve opened a can of worms!

But, can you see how a matriarchal priesthood IS a tenet of Christ? There has never been any hinting by Christ or His Church that women can and should be priestesses. For a huge shift in tradition like that, there had better be no doubt on the matter. On the contrary, there is significant doubt. Christ chose men, His Church has always been led by men, and has always defended this even from time of the early fathers.
 
Irish_Eyes_826 said:
I’ve been reading about the ongoing talks between the Vatican and SSPX. I find it amazing that the Vatican will welcome them back with open arms. They have denied the teachings of the church and yet the Vatican wants them back. Yet, the Vatican has no trouble defrocking and excommunicating Father Roy Bourgeois for simply voicing his belief that women should be ordained. He didn’t start a new church; he didn’t ordain bishops without Vatican approval; he simply questioned the way the Church goes about ordinations. It seems you have to be a right-wing traditionalist to get any respect from Rome. It is very sad. 😦 Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems hypocritical to me.
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You know, I’ve seen SSPX supporters say exactly the opposite: “Why do liberal/heterodox/etc. priests and bishops go unchecked and rise through the ranks of the Church while the traditionally minded get excommunicated and placed in an irregular status?”

I guess it depends on how you look at it. 😉

You’ll note, though, that the Church isn’t simply opening the door and letting them come back with no conditions. If that were the case, the SSPX would have already been regularized by now.
 
Irish_Eyes_826 said:
Father Roy Bourgeois … he simply questioned the way the Church goes about ordinations.
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‘Questioning’ is fine, but questions have answers, and Fr. Roy received the answer. The problem is that he did not accept it.

If would be very similar to a mathematics professor questioning what the value of Pi is. If he was given the answer of 3.14159265, by the department Dean but continues to lecture that Pi is equal to 10, would it surprise anyone if he was fired.

Or how about a Geology Professor who insisted that the world was cube shaped and created by a Celestial Panda? Is that valid questioning, or should the faculty recognize that professor as a quack and remove their teaching credentials.

Fr. Roy was given the answer to his question. His spiritual ‘F’ came about because he refused to teach the correct answer.
 
Irish_Eyes_826 said:
I’ve been reading about the ongoing talks between the Vatican and SSPX. I find it amazing that the Vatican will welcome them back with open arms. They have denied the teachings of the church and yet the Vatican wants them back. Yet, the Vatican has no trouble defrocking and excommunicating Father Roy Bourgeois for simply voicing his belief that women should be ordained. He didn’t start a new church; he didn’t ordain bishops without Vatican approval; he simply questioned the way the Church goes about ordinations. It seems you have to be a right-wing traditionalist to get any respect from Rome. It is very sad. 😦 Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems hypocritical to me.
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You ARE wrong. If they were just going to be “welcomed back with open arms,” it wouldn’t take years of talks between the SSPX and the Vatican, would it?

You seem to be saying that even talking to them is wrong. Please explain why you think it’s wrong for the Pope to try to heal this situation?
 
GloriousOrder said:
Have the hierarchy and priests of the F.S.S.P.X. actually gone so far as to totally deny tenets of the faith? Refusing to comply with the purely pastoral dictates of Vatican II is rather different from openly condemning the patriarchal nature of the priesthood. 🙂
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You are confusing two different groups here. The FSSP are priests who say the Latin Mass and are in complete conformity with the Magisterium.

The SSPX are the ones who were disobedient to the Magisterium and ordained priests without permission.
 
Dorothy said:
You are confusing two different groups here. The FSSP are priests who say the Latin Mass and are in complete conformity with the Magisterium.

The SSPX are the ones who were disobedient to the Magisterium and ordained priests without permission.
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FSSPX = Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Pii Decimo
FSSP = Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri

The full acronym of SSPX is not used for some reason.
 
GloriousOrder said:
Have the hierarchy and priests of the F.S.S.P.X. actually gone so far as to totally deny tenets of the faith? Refusing to comply with the purely pastoral dictates of Vatican II is rather different from openly condemning the patriarchal nature of the priesthood. 🙂
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With all do respect, they do deny the Priesthood. They believe that the church has been so wacked out of it’s mind that it doesn’t have a real Priesthood anymore, therefore it has no sacraments.

And, by the way, I read on your page you enjoy beating up Franciscans? As someone who adores the Franciscans and might join them, I would just like to say bring it. 😛
 
ATeutonicKnight said:
With all do respect, they do deny the Priesthood. They believe that the church has been so wacked out of it’s mind that it doesn’t have a real Priesthood anymore, therefore it has no sacraments.
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Are you quite sure that the SSPX holds, as a fundamental and universal tenet, that the Novus Ordo rite of ordination is totally invalid? I often wonder if that’s just something a few weird ones said, or whether the entire Fraternity holds that view officially.
And, by the way, I read on your page you enjoy beating up Franciscans? As someone who adores the Franciscans and might join them, I would just like to say bring it. 😛
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🙂 I love Franciscans, the vile beggars… 😃
 
Irish_Eyes_826 said:
I’ve been reading about the ongoing talks between the Vatican and SSPX. I find it amazing that the Vatican will welcome them back with open arms. They have denied the teachings of the church and yet the Vatican wants them back. Yet, the Vatican has no trouble defrocking and excommunicating Father Roy Bourgeois for simply voicing his belief that women should be ordained. He didn’t start a new church; he didn’t ordain bishops without Vatican approval; he simply questioned the way the Church goes about ordinations. It seems you have to be a right-wing traditionalist to get any respect from Rome. It is very sad. 😦 Correct me if I’m wrong, but this seems hypocritical to me.
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You’re completely wrong. You don’t seem to be very well informed about the entire situation. The Pope would never excommunicate someone for simply believing that women should be Priests. He would definitely send that person a letter, explaining why we can’t do that even if we wanted to, but he would not excommunicate them. The way this might be true is if the said person was teaching why it should be allowed to the faithful and challenging the Pope. You might be correct, but in the manner of which you said it is wrong. You don’t have to start a church to be excommunicated. You simply have to challenge the church’s teachings with your own and teach it among your parishioners, in which even then you would be sent a few letters before it came down to something as serious as excommunication.

And, to your comment about the “right-wing traditionalists”, this is because the “right-wing traditionalists” withhold and preserve the actual teachings, and don’t try to change everything. The modernists do, and that is why we, along with Pope Benedict, are trying our best to teach the modernists why they are wrong and bring them into the light. If you find a problem with teaching truth, than I’m afraid you’ll quickly become a target on Catholic Answers.
 
GloriousOrder said:
Are you quite sure that the SSPX holds, as a fundamental and universal tenet, that the Novus Ordo rite of ordination is totally invalid? I often wonder if that’s just something a few weird ones said, or whether the entire Fraternity holds that view officially.

Perhaps. I’ve heard they believe we’re totally wacked out of our mind, but I don’t know much about them. I’m a seta-vacantist specialist myself. 😛

🙂 I love Franciscans, the vile beggars… 😃
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I love the Dominicans as well, though they do tend to chatter on about this and that… 😛
 
Thank you for the responses everyone! They have explained a lot.
 
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