Hypothetical Moral question

[fisherman_carl]

I was watching a TV show called Sliders where these people slide between parallel universes. They end up in an alternate reality in San Francisco where things can be very different. In this one reality most of the males had died from some virus that affected only them. Most of the planet was left with almost all females. The world did not have our reproductive technologies. So, they were trying to save the human species by quarantining the remaining males and having them mate with 4 or 5 females a day. Only the best females were allowed to mate in order to produce the best offspring.

This got me wondering what is the Catholic position in such a hypothetical situation. I know that in the OT it was allowed for men to have multiple wives. I wonder if there was more females then men back then because there were a lot of wars so men could be killed. Anyway, is there ever a hypothetical situation like the near extinction of males where multiple mates for the purpose of repopulation could be justified under Catholic moral theology?

 

[WetCatechumen]

I was watching a TV show called Sliders where these people slide between parallel universes. They end up in an alternate reality in San Francisco where things can be very different. In this one reality most of the males had died from some virus that affected only them. Most of the planet was left with almost all females. The world did not have our reproductive technologies. So, they were trying to save the human species by quarantining the remaining males and having them mate with 4 or 5 females a day. Only the best females were allowed to mate in order to produce the best offspring.

This got me wondering what is the Catholic position in such a hypothetical situation. I know that in the OT it was allowed for men to have multiple wives. I wonder if there was more females then men back then because there were a lot of wars so men could be killed. Anyway, is there ever a hypothetical situation like the near extinction of males where multiple mates for the purpose of repopulation could be justified under Catholic moral theology?

I love that show and thought the exact same thing.

 

[Seira]

I was watching a TV show called Sliders where these people slide between parallel universes. They end up in an alternate reality in San Francisco where things can be very different. In this one reality most of the males had died from some virus that affected only them. Most of the planet was left with almost all females. The world did not have our reproductive technologies. So, they were trying to save the human species by quarantining the remaining males and having them mate with 4 or 5 females a day. Only the best females were allowed to mate in order to produce the best offspring.

This got me wondering what is the Catholic position in such a hypothetical situation. I know that in the OT it was allowed for men to have multiple wives. I wonder if there was more females then men back then because there were a lot of wars so men could be killed. Anyway, is there ever a hypothetical situation like the near extinction of males where multiple mates for the purpose of repopulation could be justified under Catholic moral theology?

DEATH… BY SNU SNU!

 

[lerapt78]

Wishful thinking, Gentlemen?

I don’t know the answer OP, but I would guess that it might be allowed in a case like this - exoneration of the sin for a greater good/necessity, perhaps. I think it would be akin to killing someone in self-defense/war.

 

[alice24]

I think the purpose does not justify the means. It seems to be an nice fantasy of some men…but the rules wich were made to stick together our community and our body AND soul are still necessary in hard times.

 

[JRKH]

I do not believe the Church would approve. While the proposed method would undoubtedly speed up the process, it is not the only alternative available.
A single married couple can produce multiple offspring. I had a great aunt and uncle who produced (and raised) 17 children. My Godfather and his wife produced 8.
I believe that the Church would prefer to promote large families rather than multiple wives…and trust to the providence of God.

Just speculation of course…

Peace
James

 

[Hokomai]

The solution would be artificial insemination. Read up on dairy farming if you want to know how you can achieve massive population increases with very few males. The Catholic Church would be opposed. Encouraging multiple births would also assist. The Catholic Church would not be opposed this this. With most of the men gone, I guess those women religious would be running the show, so things might be different .

 

[1ke]

Anyway, is there ever a hypothetical situation like the near extinction of males where multiple mates for the purpose of repopulation could be justified under Catholic moral theology?

No.

one may never do evil, even in pursuit of a perceived good. The ends do not justify the means. These are basic moral truths in Catholic teaching.

 

[Joe_5859]

DEATH… BY SNU SNU!

That’s exactly the scene that popped into my mind when I read the OP.

Anyway, 1ke is right: basic Catholic moral teaching is that we may never do evil that good may come of it. God started out with one man and one woman and the human race did just fine in reproducing itself. In a post-apocalyptic scenario, He could do it again.

 

[Bookcat]

No.

one may never do evil, even in pursuit of a perceived good. The ends do not justify the means. These are basic moral truths in Catholic teaching.

 

[fisherman_carl]

No.

one may never do evil, even in pursuit of a perceived good. The ends do not justify the means. These are basic moral truths in Catholic teaching.

What about multiple wives? It was permitted by God in the OT. If multiple wives are evil and the end does not justify the means then how come God apparently allowed it in the OT?

 

[Joe_5859]

What about multiple wives? It was permitted by God in the OT. If multiple wives are evil and the end does not justify the means then how come God apparently allowed it in the OT?

God allows us to do all sorts of evil things because he gave us free will. That doesn’t make it morally okay.

Recall the words of Jesus: “For the hardness of your hearts did Moses allow for divorce. But from the beginning, it was not so.” Note, Jesus says that Moses allowed it, not God. I know you’re speaking of multiple wives, not divorce, but I think the principle still holds.

 

[1ke]

What about multiple wives? It was permitted by God in the OT. If multiple wives are evil and the end does not justify the means then how come God apparently allowed it in the OT?

God did not allow it. The Israelites went against god many times, this is only one of them.

 

[lerapt78]

No.

one may never do evil, even in pursuit of a perceived good. The ends do not justify the means. These are basic moral truths in Catholic teaching.

I am not well-educated on this subject, so I would trust the judgement of regular posters over mine in this instance. My question is not for contradiction, but clarification: Is evil not defined by intention and premeditation? In the case the OP illustrated, if the man petitioned to have sexual relations with multiple women “for the good of all”, but secretly only desired it out of lust, then yes, this would be evil. But, if his intentions were truly to prevent human extinction and not borne out of lust, then would this still be considered an unjustified sin?

Is killing in self-defense not acceptable by Catholic teaching? Aren’t there cases where exceptions are made after much thought and deliberation?

What about multiple wives? It was permitted by God in the OT. If multiple wives are evil and the end does not justify the means then how come God apparently allowed it in the OT?

God permits sin because he gave us free will. Permitting sin to occur without stopping is not the same as giving permission to sin. Also, I would point out that the Ten Commandments and other rules were intended for Israeliates only, as the covenant was between God and them, not other peoples. For instance, an Israelite could not enslave another…but he could enslave a Pagan. He could not steal from a fellow Jew…but he would *not *have been prosecuted for the theft of an Egyptian. The New Testament deals with God’s revelation through Jesus of how his rules and mercy were extended to *all *of his children, not just the Isrealites. I wonder then (and I would ask an expert to corroborate this), if polygamy was not condemned as sinful if the wives were not of Jewish ethnicity.

God did not allow it. The Israelites went against god many times, this is only one of them.

Exactly.

I think the purpose does not justify the means. It seems to be an nice fantasy of some men…but the rules wich were made to stick together our community and our body AND soul are still necessary in hard times.

I would bet all the money in my wallet that there is maybe a 10% moral element to this question, and a 90% fantasy one.

 

[1ke]

I am not well-educated on this subject, so I would trust the judgement of regular posters over mine in this instance. My question is not for contradiction, but clarification: Is evil not defined by intention and premeditation? In the case the OP illustrated, if the man petitioned to have sexual relations with multiple women “for the good of all”, but secretly only desired it out of lust, then yes, this would be evil. But, if his intentions were truly to prevent human extinction and not borne out of lust, then would this still be considered an unjustified sin?

Is killing in self-defense not acceptable by Catholic teaching? Aren’t there cases where exceptions are made after much thought and deliberation?

there are three fonts of morality. The intention is only one of them.

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P5Q.HTM

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P5R.HTM

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P5S.HTM

 

[lerapt78]

Thanks

 

[fisherman_carl]

1. But, if his intentions were truly to prevent human extinction and not borne out of lust, then would this still be considered an unjustified sin?
2. Is killing in self-defense not acceptable by Catholic teaching? Aren’t there cases where exceptions are made after much thought and deliberation?
3. God permits sin because he gave us free will. Permitting sin to occur without stopping is not the same as giving permission to sin.
4. I would bet all the money in my wallet that there is maybe a 10% moral element to this question, and a 90% fantasy one.

1. That is the question.
2. Exactly. Killing is evil but it is not always unjustified like in the case of self defence. If someone tried to kill your family you would have a duty to protect them even if it meant killing the intruder. If we said the end couldn’t justify the means here then we couldn’t protect our families. Here we have 2 outcomes and both are evil. We have to choose the lesser evil, which is to kill the assailant.
3. It seems to me that it was not considered sin at all by Jews. Where in the OT does it say polygamy was a sin?
4. You can send your money to my acct in Zwitzerland It is not my fantasy. I am not for polygamy. I am just wondering what the CC’s position would be on this.

How do you justify polygamy as evil? And could it ever be justified? What if it came down to 2 choices? Once choice is to face extinction. The other is to allow polygamy? Both could be considered evil. Which is the lesser of two evils?

 

[lerapt78]

1. You can send your money to my acct in Zwitzerland It is not my fantasy. I am not for polygamy. I am just wondering what the CC’s position would be on this.

How do you justify polygamy as evil? And could it ever be justified? What if it came down to 2 choices? Once choice is to face extinction. The other is to allow polygamy? Both could be considered evil. Which is the lesser of two evils?

You win about $16.00. Good thing I didn’t type this before I went to the bank.

Well, we know from the New Testament that polygamy is wrong, but I don’t know the answer to your question. Was it acceptable in the OT??

I would justify it as an evil because the sexual act is supposed to be a physical manifestation of the emotional unity of man and woman. If one spouse is performing this act with many others, can there be true unity with the other person? Though I think polygamy would be the lesser of the two evils in this case.