Hypothetical situation

[Monty61]

There is a ship in the middle of the ocean, just for illustration say it is a U.S. Navy ship. There is no other ship or land within 1000 miles (4 days sailing). One of the crew becomes injured and cannot be saved. Before he dies, he asks for the chaplain. The crew member is an Orthodox Christian and the only chaplain on the ship is Roman Catholic. The crew member tells the Catholic priest that he wants to go to confession because he has committed mortal sins that he has never confessed, and receive Communion before he dies. The priest hears his confession (knowing that the penitent is Orthodox) and gives absolution, then gives him Communion with a Catholic commnunion wafer that he, the priest, has previously consecrated. Then the priest annoints him with the Catholic ritual for annointing of the Sick. The sailor then dies.

Questions:

1. Are the sailor’s sins actually absolved?
2. Did the sailor actually receive the Eucharist before he died?
3. What if the situation were reversed; ie the priest was Orthodox and the sailor was Catholic? Does it change the answer to questions 1 or 2?
4. Should the Catholic priest have refused to administer the sacraments to the dying sailor?

 

[mardukm]

1. Are the sailor’s sins actually absolved?

YES!!!

2. Did the sailor actually receive the Eucharist before he died?

YES!!!

3. What if the situation were reversed; ie the priest was Orthodox and the sailor was Catholic? Does it change the answer to questions 1 or 2?

From the EOC perspective, the answer to (1) would either be “we don’t know” or “they would be absolved by God’s mercy, but not because of the Catholic priest”; the answer to (2) would be “we don’t know.” I am open to correction on that.
From the Coptic Orthodox Church perspective, the answer to (1) would be "they would be absolved by God’s mercy, but not because of the of the Catholic priest; the answer to (2) would be “no.” (sadly, IMHO)
From the perspective of the other Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Indian Syrian Malankara Orthodox Church, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church, the answer to (1) would be “yes”; the answer to (2) would be “yes.”

4. Should the Catholic priest have refused to administer the sacraments to the dying sailor?

A Catholic priest is obligated and cannot refuse to administer the sacraments to ANY PERSON if that person is properly disposed.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Volodymyr]

HYPOTHESIS

You are worrying too much about things only God knows. Such answers - from perspective of such a thing are not helpful. God alone knows!

But I know that in labor camps in 1940’s, 1950’s in Soviet Union, many Litvan Catolic priests helped Orthodox and many Orthodox priests helped Catolics. At that time, when suffering and dying, all who have belief in God have more in common (together) than does their atheistic persecutor.

God knows what happens - but we trust that in such situations he will understand that only a Catolic priest and he was there to help - both He blesses, I believe.

 

[malphono]

There is a ship in the middle of the ocean, just for illustration say it is a U.S. Navy ship. There is no other ship or land within 1000 miles (4 days sailing). One of the crew becomes injured and cannot be saved. Before he dies, he asks for the chaplain. The crew member is an Orthodox Christian and the only chaplain on the ship is Roman Catholic. The crew member tells the Catholic priest that he wants to go to confession because he has committed mortal sins that he has never confessed, and receive Communion before he dies. The priest hears his confession (knowing that the penitent is Orthodox) and gives abolution, then gives him Communion with a Catholic commnunion wafer that he, the priest, has previously consecrated. The sailor then dies.

Questions:

1. Are the sailor’s sins actually absolved?
2. Did the sailor actually receive the Eucharist before he died?
3. What if the situation were reversed; ie the priest was Orthodox and the sailor was Catholic? Does it change the answer to questions 1 or 2?
4. Should the Catholic priest have refused to administer the sacraments to the dying sailor?

Answers:

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. It’s exactly the same thing. No change to answers (1) and (2).
4. No.

 

[Aramis]

Questions:

1. Are the sailor’s sins actually absolved?
2. Did the sailor actually receive the Eucharist before he died?
3. What if the situation were reversed; ie the priest was Orthodox and the sailor was Catholic? Does it change the answer to questions 1 or 2?
4. Should the Catholic priest have refused to administer the sacraments to the dying sailor?

1: Yes. The priest has the power to forgive sins of any baptized christian. He may licitly do so for Orthodox whether Oriental or Eastern Orthodox. And the ACE, PNCC, and Armenians, too. In the US Military, Many Orthodox opt to attend Catholic services, as many of the Orthodox believe the Catholic sacraments valid.

2: as long as it was consecrated by a Catholic, Orthodox, ACE, or PNCC priest, there is no doubt. Since of these groups, only the Catholics routinely have Chaplains… so there is little doubt.

3: No change to the validity and licity from the Catholic side… The Orthodox priest might, however, refuse the eucharist, and/or absolution. If they refuse to absolve, they will absolutely refuse communion…

4: If the sailor asked, and is Orthodox (EO or OO), ACE, PNCC, CPCA, or of those Old Catholics without female clerics, he may NOT refuse, per canon law. Only the nature of certain sins prevents absolution

If fact, if it was a non-catholic, and he asked to be baptized, the priest is obligated to do so (at least conditionally) for the good of the soul.

 

[Ghosty]

From the Catholic side, the situation wouldn’t even need to be as extreme as you present it. It would be permitted even if it was just a regular Sunday; the Orthodox are welcome (from the Catholic perspective) to receive these Sacraments from Catholic ministers.

Peace and God bless!

 

[mardukm]

From the EOC perspective, the answer to (1) would either be “we don’t know” or “they would be absolved by God’s mercy, but not because of the Catholic priest”; the answer to (2) would be “we don’t know.” I am open to correction on that.
From the Coptic Orthodox Church perspective, the answer to (1) would be "they would be absolved by God’s mercy, but not because of the of the Catholic priest; the answer to (2) would be “no.” (sadly, IMHO)
From the perspective of the other Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Indian Syrian Malankara Orthodox Church, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church, the answer to (1) would be “yes”; the answer to (2) would be “yes.”

OOPS! I think I misread your question #3. I though it meant “how would non-Catholic apostolic Christians view what the Catholic priest did for that person.” Oh well. If that was your question, that is my answer above. But it’s not, and I have a headache right now and can’t think straight enough to answer your question properly. :juggle:

Blessings.

 

[bpbasilphx]

\The crew member tells the Catholic priest that he wants to go to confession because he has committed mortal sins that he has never confessed, and receive Communion before he dies.\

**Emphasis added.

Actually, Orthodox don’t think or speak in terms of “mortal sin.”**

 

[Addai]

\The crew member tells the Catholic priest that he wants to go to confession because he has committed mortal sins that he has never confessed, and receive Communion before he dies.\

**Emphasis added.

Actually, Orthodox don’t think or speak in terms of “mortal sin.”**

It’s about time somebody finally mentioned that! (I was wondering if I was going to have to clarify that major paradigmatic difference)

 

[eOxy]

1. Are the sailor’s sins actually absolved?

No.

He also committed the gravest sin.

1. Did the sailor actually receive the Eucharist before he died?

No.

1. What if the situation were reversed; ie the priest was Orthodox and the sailor was Catholic? Does it change the answer to questions 1 or 2?

Yes.

1. Should the Catholic priest have refused to administer the sacraments to the dying sailor?

If he was asked by a dying sailor, and if he felt that he should administer it, no, he shouldn’t have refused.

 

[Monty61]

\The crew member tells the Catholic priest that he wants to go to confession because he has committed mortal sins that he has never confessed, and receive Communion before he dies.\

**Emphasis added.

Actually, Orthodox don’t think or speak in terms of “mortal sin.”**

While all sin is bad, of course, are there not degrees of sin? What is the Orthodox term for what a Catholic would call mortal sin?