I badly want a divorce

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To cut a long story short I married a lapsed Catholic who before marriage said he’d join me at Mass (I didn’t expect every week, even back then) and specifically mentioned several times and to the Priest that he would bring the children up Catholic.

Eight years later, he is so hostile to the faith, this morning I was explaining Christmas is not about presents, it’s about Jesus’ birth and presents are a reminder of the gift He is to us, he walked in and interrupted me and told them about Saturnalia. He frequently interrupts night prayers and says “You don’t have to say things other people wrote” (which I guess is true but I get the feeling he’s undermining me.

The other day he used Our Lord’s name as an exclamation and I said “Poor Jesus, he had nothing to do with this!” ie a VERY GENTLE ADMONITION, and I got told that if he knew he would not have his choice of swear words when he married me he wouldn’t have gone ahead with it (yes, he really said that).

The list like this is long. He has pretty much gone back on every promise he made before marriage (and initially kept). I kind of despise him now as a man-child. When I point these out he says I never keep my promises, citing only “not loving” him, I think referring to me getting upset when he mocks me.

Am I supposed to carry this Cross and not get upset when he does this? I pointed out that the last seven years have been “crushingly lonely…is that difficult for you to hear?”. Is that not loving? I thought that was just truthful. I can’t put across anything, even gently without getting told I’m some kind of domineering fundamentalist, and he wants me to accept that.

Any way, I have written a few times before on the family forum, but I’ve been attending the TLM exclusively for a year now, at the time of marriage I have retrospectively described myself as “trad waiting to happen”. Ironically the loneliness I felt pushed me towards prayer and that led me towards the TLM and now I’m stuck loving this way more than anything.

I keep hearing over and over again that divorce is of the devil…but I can’t help but think “not in this case”. I REALLY WANT OUT. I was lied to and am constantly mocked. I want my children’s souls to be formed properly.

Is it really wrong in every case?
 
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Have you thought about marriage counseling?

Consider asking St Rita/Monica/ to pray for him and your marriage.
 
Also do you know about annulments? You can talk to a priest about them and ask if you qualify.
 
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I suppose I should go down that road. We have four children under seven and I’m studying law, he’s finishing his projects off so we never have time and are extremely tired.

I’m doing the 54 day novena right now, but I’ve been praying like mad since the beginning really. I’m kind of losing faith in prayer because he’s gotten worse. I think he expects to say things like “You don’t have women Priests because the Bible was written by misogynists” and not get a reply. He also told me he was fully aware of what I was like but figured I’d “grow out of it”. I just expected he’d keep his word.
 
Yes I’d definitely seek an annulment but to be honest I wouldn’t remarry any way. More of the same? No thanks!

Fr Dave Nix has a podcast that seems to say that annulments are just the easy way out these days so even if you get one it’s likely that it’s just modernism handing you a ticket to freedom.
 
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joeysmith said:
but I can’t help but think “not in this case”. I REALLY WANT OUT. I was lied to and am constantly mocked.
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That’s a common justification for many sins. It’s almost a trope at this point.
 

1 Peter 3:1-6 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)​

3 In like manner also let wives be subject to their husbands: that if any believe not the word, they may be won without the word, by the conversation of the wives.

2 Considering your chaste conversation with fear.

3 Whose adorning let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel:

4 But the hidden man of the heart in the incorruptibility of a quiet and a meek spirit, which is rich in the sight of God.

5 For after this manner heretofore the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection to their own husbands:

6 As Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters you are, doing well, and not fearing any disturbance.

Here’s a movie recommendation - The Case for Christ.
Lee stroble’s wife becomes Christian and he is an Atheist.
 
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That’s why I’m writing, because my feelings are not in line with my formation, and now I’m confused because they have persisted for so long.

PLUS…what do I owe my children? I really fear for their souls if they’re exposed to his errors. Might I add this all went south in a serious way when his sister “came out”.
 
Things were better. He’d have a little dig every now and again and we’d have a bit of a dispute over some things, but after that he said I needed to change my mind about SSA/relationships. I said I would not, but I would never treat her unkindly (to this day I have never been unkind, but they interpret not letting the children call the other woman “Aunty” as unkind, because all the cousins do). Since that big argument years ago, it’s been knives out on pretty much everything, and he blames Catholicism.

There’s never any mention of his own inability to do as he says, speak with charity, honour his vows, be the father of this family as opposed to her brother. My Mum tried to console me by saying “blood’s thicker than water”. I said “I’m supposed to be his blood” ☹️
 
Have you targeted this issue in prayer and tried to explain that Christians are supposed to love all? Her same sex attraction is not a sin. Her practicing it is the issue.

Have you shown kindness to her?

I’m not dismissing your hurt by the way.
 
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Yes I have been very kind. I always make sure that I ask after her. I chat about her life with her. I’ve made sure that he offers to look after her dogs or do anything she needs that we can do. I simply refuse to acknowledge that the relationship she has is “good”. She had many emotional problems and was called fat and ugly by my father-in-law when he was inebriated (he had a problem with alcohol when she was a child). I have also tried to say that this relationship will not heal the problems she has (I knew she was that way inclined about five seconds after I met her and probably about two years before she came out). She is still prone to anger outbursts and backbiting and procures a tattoo every birthday. But apparently saying she is still hurt is not OK, and definitely I can’t mention the alcoholism as a factor or that’s being judgmental. Everyone just wants to be “right” and my father in law ALWAYS says to me “why should I feel guilty about no going to Mass? God’s everywhere.” “The Brothers used to make me wet myself because they told me all the things I did that would send me to hell (ie mortal sins)” This all happens EVERY SINGLE TIME we visit. I’ll just be eating lunch and he’ll say “so what about Cardinal Pell hey?” (We’re Australian). THEY ASK ME MY OPINION and then mock my answer. I’ve been told to just say what they want me to say and be left alone but somehow I just can’t speak lies 😦
 
There’s aren’t any fornicators in our family, but I have mentioned to the children that living together is NOT marriage. If there ever are co-habiting couples, I wouldn’t let them call the other person any title that assumes a legitimate one-flesh union. Calling close friends Aunty or Uncle… they understand the difference of a blood relationship and my close friends in lieu of siblings (I’m an only child).

I must stress that this does not include being unkind or anything like that. But giving something honour (title of Aunty or Uncle when the person is no such thing), I just can’t do. It’s hard but what do we do as parents? We can’t confuse them…I don’t know, for me marriage is marriage and anything else is not…
 
Good on you (name removed by moderator) for having your heart in the right place and striving to have the rest of you go with it.

Yes only Jesus can do this, and to Jesus through Mary. I’m a revert myself, so I know how precious this all is. Many silly mistakes in the past.

I don’t want to be a divorced person. I want my family together and to seek holiness together. But “wanting does not make it so”…
 
Yes I agree. I try to keep my mouth shut as much a possible. Oh for the wisdom of Solomon to choose the right battles. So far I’m choosing not to lead prayers every night, but I have told them to pray themselves if I’m not putting them to bed. Even that feels weird. I’m so frightened of causing an argument I haven’t put up a nativity scene yet…feels weird and I hope it’s just prudence and not fear.
 
I haven’t seen any reason for divorce in your posts.

I think you are both very, very stressed, and that can make things seem hopeless and also lead to unkind words/behavior.

Please talk to your husband. And listen to him. Listen to what he has to say about your situation. Together, you can figure out how to be allies instead of enemies.

And as for leaving an unbelieving spouse–Paul specifically says not to do that, as long as the unbelieving spouse is willing to stay.
 
joeysmith said:
I REALLY WANT OUT
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This sounds like your frustration, otherwise why are you here?

He could be in a rut.

How to get him out of rut? First you have to understand how different he is from you.
The quickest way, think of a marriage like brickyard.

When all is well, amazing structures can be built.
When not, each brick becomes a disagreement, argument and fight.

You take these and slowly start building a wall.
Because he doesn’t notice, you think that’s who he really is.

His bricks are just scattered all over the place, which he simply steps over.
He rarely remembers any of them. The bad habit husband.

You have to change that, but without your already failed techniques.
 
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Retrouvaille? They have many locations with weekends coming up in January or February.
joeysmith said:
I REALLY WANT OUT. I was lied to and am constantly mocked. I want my children’s souls to be formed properly.
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Was thinking about this part. Even if you were to divorce, he would still have influence over your children’s faith formation. It’s just that the issue would be further complicated by the fact that you would be living in separate homes where the children would be going back and forth hearing opposite things about God and the Church in each home.

Would it not be better to try to learn to listen to each other again and respect where the other is coming from? Just my humble 2 cents.
 
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This whole thing just makes me sad in a lot of ways. I mean of course there are the obvious reasons? But there’s also the fact that no matter which path you take at this point you’re going to have a bit of pain.

But the thing is? Atheism’s a bit of a brand that spills towards arrogance. Though it helps to be mindful that sometimes that can have its root in a frustration that a system of belief based on love can seem so divisive instead of unifying. But this is where you can change the narrative back to its true message for a full force impact instead of getting waylaid on the details of the moment.

I mean here we have a scene in which Christ is being mocked in His own home, but does He leave the situation in anger or does He forgive?

Now I’m not saying you need to be a doormat, but you do at least have the path of humility you might be able to cling to as a salvific aid. I mean if he mocks you and you just stay quiet, what happens? Does he keep going? Does he run out of steam?

Kids are observant little folks. They don’t always need to be told the difference between Christianity and the world. Sometimes all they need to do is see how it actually plays out in real life. If the world comes across as mean and abrasive, selfish and cruel, lazy and super-critical? And Christianity lived ends up a shining example of true love poured out, of quiet patience, of humble acceptance and care? Well which path do you think they’ll more likely want to tread?

I think the key here is to try to lead by example as much as possible. Set the words and arguments aside. Put up your manger scene, but if he complains, just ask if there is a place where it will not be much of a bother. If he just makes fun of it, just ask him once if he minds not doing that since it’s meaningful to you. If he persists, just let it drop.

Christianity was never founded upon winning angry arguments. It was never strengthened in the heat of battle. The love that Christ showed even unto His enemies is what made Christianity something people longed to have in their lives. It is the key aspect. The pinnacle of perfect. It is the dying to self so that others may live in that spirit of true care and concern.

Keep that in focus and draw peace in around you as your shield.

Peace joeysmith. Please PM me if you ever want to talk more. I’ll be lining up prayers for you. For sure.

-Trident
 
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Hi,

I’m from Australia too :australia: !
I am really sorry about the situation you are in with your husband.
It must be very hard to hear your own husband-who should be your supporter-mocking and deriding your religion which means so much to you.

I truly hope this doesn’t sound harsh, but I would suggest a few things as from what you have written it seems there may be a few things to change to not drive him further away from God/Christianity…
Firstly, as he can act like a “man child” as you mentioned, I would try to avoid playing the role of “mother” to his man child.

Eg: if he says Jesus “inappropriately” etc, I would say nothing in response.
I would act more non chalant (can pray for him internally if you feel it’s necessary).

If you go to Church at Christmas, change tack by not trying to encourage or force your husband to go.
Just lovingly say that you and the kids are going to Church.
You want it to be a decision he comes to himself in time.
Right now, his feelings and bitterness or cynicism etc towards the Catholic Church are raw and he’s on “hyper alert” to anything positive you try to convince him about it or any “chastisement” directed towards him.

If he asks why you are going without him, just say you thought he wouldn’t want to go.

If he mentions something negative about God or the Catholic Church try to express sympathy for what he has experienced or his feelings (hard as it may be!).
Having a lesbian sister and father with negative experiences have all formed his viewpoint.

Generally try the “catch more flies with honey approach” for hubby instead of fighting/ correcting him etc.

Regarding Pell, I’m not sure hubby would be receptive at this stage at hearing anything…

I think you will be most “successful” with your husband currently by “living out Jesus and the bible” instead of talking about it (if that makes sense).

Your situation reminds me of a touching story I once read about a Christian woman who was married to a Muslim guy.
Her Muslim husband strongly said to her that he never wants to hear a word about Jesus from her. So for however many years of marriage she literally never said Jesus once but everyday she lived out Jesus and when the husband understood, eventually he became a Christian too:)
 
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