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una_ecclesia
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Is any theoretical compatibility be Catholicism and communism possible when the definition of communism itself implies the destruction of the natural family?
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Cruciferi
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There is NOT nor shall there ever be compatibility between Catholicism and Communism. The two are Diametrically Opposed.
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Curious11
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I’m not sure it implies such destruction
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Curious11
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I disagree
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una_ecclesia
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That’s why I asked you what could be wrong with my reasoning. I invoked nothing other than theory and your definition. Where do I logically go off?
After all, this is what actual communists hold… and I don’t mean the ignorant college student who is a Bernie supporter. I mean people who actually engage with the source materials of communism and adhere to them, defining communism as you do. While they may differ on the extent of “socializing” child rearing, they do not see parents as the “primary educators,” but rather favor a loosening of familial bonds, often to the point that the societal notion of “mother” and “father” are not a thing anymore. And they don’t hold to this as something attached but still logically independent of the core tenets of communist theory, they see it as something that flows from it.
After all, this is what actual communists hold… and I don’t mean the ignorant college student who is a Bernie supporter. I mean people who actually engage with the source materials of communism and adhere to them, defining communism as you do. While they may differ on the extent of “socializing” child rearing, they do not see parents as the “primary educators,” but rather favor a loosening of familial bonds, often to the point that the societal notion of “mother” and “father” are not a thing anymore. And they don’t hold to this as something attached but still logically independent of the core tenets of communist theory, they see it as something that flows from it.
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Curious11
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I’m not an expert in communism so I don’t know. Bernie is a social democrat right?
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una_ecclesia
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Yeah he is. I know that’s not the same as being a communist, and while I disagree with social democracy for practical reasons, I do think that it can be compatible with Catholicism. But you have the “communist lite” or “socialist lite” types supporting him. These are people who may wear the label of communist or socialist, but aren’t that deep into the actual theory and haven’t thought about its implications.
My experience with communist literature source material is the Manifesto itself and “The German Ideology”, as well as perusing through more academic communist cites, so I’m not the biggest expert either, but I’ve seen more than most people who critique it.
My experience with communist literature source material is the Manifesto itself and “The German Ideology”, as well as perusing through more academic communist cites, so I’m not the biggest expert either, but I’ve seen more than most people who critique it.
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Aulef
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We begin by understanding this:
Bible says the biggest evil of all is being against God.
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Communism says that the biggest evil is individualism.
These two statements are absolute and diverge from each other. Thus, Bible opposes communism.
One more.
Bible promotes a one, true and good religion. Bible says all others are false.
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Communism opposes one true religion by saying all are acceptable, though they are no more than “opium”, as a prominent communist once said.
these two statements contradict each other. Thus, Bible opposes communism.
Finally, avoid pejorative rhetorical devices. They’re nothing but an embarrassment to people who rely on them during a debate.
Bible says the biggest evil of all is being against God.
X
Communism says that the biggest evil is individualism.
These two statements are absolute and diverge from each other. Thus, Bible opposes communism.
One more.
Bible promotes a one, true and good religion. Bible says all others are false.
X
Communism opposes one true religion by saying all are acceptable, though they are no more than “opium”, as a prominent communist once said.
these two statements contradict each other. Thus, Bible opposes communism.
Finally, avoid pejorative rhetorical devices. They’re nothing but an embarrassment to people who rely on them during a debate.
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AlNg
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I don’t think that is accurate. My experience was that under communism upon graduation from college you are given a choice of several jobs, depending on your GPA. You are guaranteed at least one job, but you don’t have to take it and you can look for other work. This contrasts rather sharply with the way it is in the USA. I have spoken to several American students who graduated and applied to one hundred or more places and their applications were rejected. Of course, the job market is much better for those who majored in engineering or chemistry. And it is true that there are jobs at MacDonald’s or Burger King for those who have earned a bachelor’s degree.
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AlNg
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This is not true today for the Communist Party of Russia which seeks to work with the Russian Orthodox Church.
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una_ecclesia
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How communist are these guys though? They sound like a political party like any other… just because you have the name didn’t mean you fully adhere to the theory…
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AlNg
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This is true as mentioned above also. There are varying degrees of communism and socialism, with some being lighter than others. For example, although Bernie Sanders has been accused of being sympathetic to many communist ideas, I don’t think that anyone would accuse him of being a hard line communist. Similarly with Republicans. There are RINOs, there are middle of the road Republicans, there are right wing Republicans and there are even Libertarians who run as Republicans.
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CaptFun
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If you HAVE a Bible … and are able to look things up in it legally … anti-communism has been at least temporarily successful in your country. 
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Curious11
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Hummmm, you just opposed the secular state system… just saying. According to you, current western society is also opposed by the Bible
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Brendan_64
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But Communism is what it is. Communism is how it has played out since it has begun, just over 100 years ago. As a system, it requires the forcible confiscation of people’s private property. How else are you going to get control of land, companies, housing etc? And needs to control not just the land and property, but the people. How is this to be achieved without coersion? Then there is also Communism’s relationship with the family. In Communist society the collective is ultimately responsible for the child’s upbringing.
Communism involves theft, coersion, almost total control of individuals, the removal of the family’s role as the building block of society, and a subservience of all to the state. It is difficult to see how this is compatible with the Catholic Church.
Communism seems to replace a loving, spiritual God with a cruel, controlling earthly state that does not respect a person’s free will.
I think people get confused and thiink Communism is essentially about fairness and caring for one’s fellow man. It isn’t. It is about squashing the individual nature or people, controlling their lives, forcing them to accept a set of beliefs and abolishing individual human rights.
Communism is how it has been played out since it first came into being. Oppression, coersion, theft, thought control and barbed wire fences with armed guards to stop people trying to escape it.
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