I can't because I love you

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I’m in a relationship with a wonderful woman whom I love dearly. She’s amazing, intelligent, and honestly makes me feel very close to God. There is one MAJOR problem, however, and that’s our different views on sex.

When I was younger I had a LOT of sex. I also wasn’t Catholic, and I wasn’t promiscuous. Every person I had sex with I was with for at least two years, even in my VERY young days (I won’t say how young, but lets just say that when I started having sex I wasn’t old enough to be on this forum). Now I’m with this woman who I love, and in all previous relationships I would be having sex with her, but now I have a much deeper understanding of the act, and I’m a faithful Catholic. Problem is that she isn’t a Catholic, and to her sex would be the ideal expression of our love for eachother at this point. Official marriage is out of the question at the moment due to other reasons, but the biggest problem is that she doesn’t want to have kids right now and neither do I, so in her view we could have sex but simply use contraception.

Today I told her that we can’t continue down the road of sexual intercourse (we’ve unfortunately already haltingly started in that direction, being human has its drawbacks 😦 ) and she’s very upset. I explained to her that my reasons involving wanting to have total freedom and love in sex, and that we would have to be commited to eachother (which we are) and commited to accepting the potential of children (which we aren’t), but she’s still very hurt because to her it’s a rejection of her rather than an affirmation of my love for her. I WANT to be with her, but I don’t want there to be barriers between our love, and I don’t want a potential child to be a worry rather than a source of joy. She is not Catholic, and often has difficulty understanding my perspective, but she’s been very open to the faith and my belief in it in general. I think this issue just strikes her personally.

I guess I’m just venting, but I would love advice, espescially from people who have been in a similar situation. As I said, for legal reasons we can’t get married regardless of the Sacramental nature of our relationship, and she’s set on artificial contraception. How can I explain to her that I want to hold back because of how much I love her and how special I want our potential union to be?
 
Check this romantic quote in the Catechism: (YES, the Catechism!)
CCC 2365 Fidelity expresses constancy in keeping one’s given word. God is faithful. The Sacrament of Matrimony enables man and woman to enter into Christ’s fidelity for his Church. Through conjugal chastity, they bear witness to this mystery before the world.
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St. John Chrysostom suggests that young husbands should say to their wives: I have taken you in my arms, and I love you, and I prefer you to my life itself. For the present life is nothing, and my most ardent dream is to spend it with you in such a way that we may be assured of not being separated in the life reserved for us. . . . I place your love above all things, and nothing would be more bitter or painful to me than to be of a different mind than you.
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Wow. Deep, eh?

Tell her that you love her mind, body and soul. Tell her how you love her soul so much you don’t want to commit a mortal sin, risking both of you going to hell. There, you won’t be together, but seperated. Only in heaven can the two of you be together.
Tell her you want to go to heaven with her TOGETHER and you need her help.

:cool:
 
Pray with her. Sounds simple but if you two put Christ in the center of your relationship (reguardless of demonination) your relationship will grow stronger. Pray for strength, pray for each other.
 
I would be so moved by a man turning down sex because it is morally wrong. But I am a cradle Catholic 😉
Gosh, this is going to be hard. In this day and age, sex is so accepted. God bless you for knowing that just because society tells you you should be doing it, doesn’t mean you should. I pray my daughter when she grows up (way up) meets a man like you have become. I sure didnt’ meet any when I was a young adult! That led to a lot of regrets in my life.
I would also say keep in mind that you don’t have to have children the moment you get married. There are valid reasons for delaying children. Assuming you have one of those reasons, you can use NFP to wait.
Don’t let one sin (sex before marriage) lead to another sin (contracepting). It snow balls from there my friend. Stand your moral ground. If she can’t accept you nor accept what God wants, perhaps she isn’t the one you are to be with. I know that is hard.
Keep up the fight!!
 
Hi there,

I’ve been there my friend, but not to the same degree as you. Your situation sounds a little more extreme than mine.

Back in February when my boyfriend and I started dating I had no intentions on having sex. He did. However, the issue did not come up until March. Physically we kept progressing down that road until I put the brakes on suddenly and told him that we had to have a talk.

I told him that I believed that God brought us together and that having sex before marriage would be like a slap in the face to Him. I also told him that I respected him and his body and that I would not defile it in sin. Also, I refused to knowingly sin against God by engaging in the marital act and with contraception. I told him the same thing you said in the title of this thread. “I can’t do this because I love you…” Love does not always equate to sex. He got really quiet afterwards. He told me that he was disappointed, and then I told him that if he couldnt accept my convictions then that we would have to move on.

Two weeks later he thanked me.

He thought about it long and hard and decided that we were going to go through this learning part of our relationship without the worries of sex. He said that in past relationships with other women that he would commit the marital act with them and then feel guilty afterward. He said that he did not want that anymore, and agreed that if God brought us together then we must do what he wills. Our respect for each other is immense. He once told me that he has become closer to God through my good example.

Give her time. She does not have to be a Catholic to understand that pre-marital sex is a sin. I knew that when I was a Protestant. She may come to her senses and learn how to love without sex. Your communication will increase and maybe she will understand the beauty of sex and be open to possibility of children.
 
Wow, this post brought up so many feelings in me. I empathize with you both. Love is so powerful.

I’m curious, though, what are the legal reasons you say are keeping you two from marrying? Does someone need an annulment? If so that can be done. It is well worth doing if this is something keeping you from marrying. Perhaps she needs one? If so, that also can be done, and if she really is committed to you she will proceed with one.

Does your partner desire to convert to Catholicism? If she does not, and you both are free to marry, you may request a dispensation from your local bishop to marry her.

You are brave to ask for help on here, friend! I understand how difficult this all must seem. Hang in there and pray! and pray with her as well! That may bring you two even closer.

God bless!
 
I don’t want to get into too much detail on the subject, but I’ll leave it at the fact that I have a conciously, and intentionally non-Sacramental civil marriage. It had to do with legal loopholes and nothing to do with marriage in the Sacramental sense of the word, but rather my desire to help a very good friend. The main problem is that divorce and annullment won’t be an option for at least a few more years, and regardless I don’t know that either my girlfriend or I are ready for true marriage (more to do with being young and her still getting used to being an adult than any question of our feelings).

Neither of us are the types to just rush into something like marriage, but we are also very much from a culture that stresses sex as an expression of love (neither of us were brought up Catholic, but neither of us were brought up to have casual sex either). I’m now Catholic, and were it not for her irrational aversion to all things religious, thanks largely to some very uncharitable fundamentalist Christian associates in her youth, she has said she would most likely embrace the Church as well. I pray for her every day, and I honestly think that as she overcomes her past she’ll come into the Church, but for now it’s not a subject to be forced. She knows how I feel about my faith, and she respects me and loves me for it, and for now that’s what matters.

I think it’s a big thing for her to overcome our contraceptive culture, too. We’re taught from day one that good sex is “safe sex” (as if new life is something to “be safe” from!) Even if we were married it would be a big task to convince her about the truth of NFP, so that aspect is a problem regardless of our relationship status. When I tried to express to her that I didn’t want to make love with her until we could be commited to eachother AND the possible third person involved, all she heard was “I don’t want to make love with you” (which of course couldn’t be further from the truth!) I tried to express that once we are at that point contraception becomes irrelevant, but I think I need to work on my pitch a bit more, to say the least :whistle:

Honestly, I think she’ll understand the fact that I love her and want to be with her, but the NFP vs. Contraception is going to be a BIG hurdle to overcome even if we do end up getting married. I’ll just continue praying. Most importantly I want her to see that waiting until we can be fully comfortable with, if not courting, the natural consequences of sex is a demonstration of just how much I want to be with her and not the opposite. I just wouldn’t want to “share” myself without fully sharing myself.

Let’s just say that the Theology of the Body is one of the most sensical teachings to me, even without faith coming into play 😛
 
Ghosty–I usually like your posts and now I know why–I’m slowly entering a very similar situation. I am becoming somewhat more than friends with a woman who is divorced and still in the annulment process. I’m not thrilled about this, but she also has some bad “post-divorce” habits, especially along the lines of dating inappropriate guys just to have that sense of connection. I don’t want to lose our friendship, but if it progresses beyond that her expectations have been pretty secularized. We talk a lot about religion and I’m blessed in that she is quite religious if not the best catechized Catholic. We’ve been spending lots of time together and I guess I will just continue to take things slow at this point.
 
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Catholicforlife:
I would be so moved by a man turning down sex because it is morally wrong. But I am a cradle Catholic 😉
Gosh, this is going to be hard. In this day and age, sex is so accepted. God bless you for knowing that just because society tells you you should be doing it, doesn’t mean you should. I pray my daughter when she grows up (way up) meets a man like you have become. I sure didnt’ meet any when I was a young adult! That led to a lot of regrets in my life.
I would also say keep in mind that you don’t have to have children the moment you get married. There are valid reasons for delaying children. Assuming you have one of those reasons, you can use NFP to wait.
Don’t let one sin (sex before marriage) lead to another sin (contracepting). It snow balls from there my friend. Stand your moral ground. If she can’t accept you nor accept what God wants, perhaps she isn’t the one you are to be with. I know that is hard.
Keep up the fight!!
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This is the best advice here so far. I totally agree. You really are going to have to choose, love of God above all things, or despising God through mortal sin because of pressure from someone who “loves You.” Love does not equal lust. In my opinion, she should start respecting your moral/ catholic view, and well, if she continues to put pressure on you, then it is time to find a Church going, God loving person who is pure in intention and decent. However, that is up to you. This is only my advice.
 
Call me craz-o but among other things she might think it’s kind of weird that you’re civilly married to someone else. I hear you with the whole culture of safe sex and doing it for love…but…you’re like, married. Even if it’s only civilly, shouldn’t you get that taken care of first before you enter further romantic (and complicated!) relationships?

After that…lemme just say that it is HARD to lure people to our side of the contraceptive issue. One of the more alluring aspects to NFP is that it is completely holistic, which is a word that appeals to secularists as well. We love it and find it wholly enjoyable for both involved. But first things first…take care of your current marriage…though it may be civil, it’s still not right to be dating other people. Sorry.
 
I understand where you are coming from. Before I was married, I dated secular women and almost all of them are so used to guys wanting to have sex that they almost take it as an insult if you aren’t trying to get them into bed on the second date. They take it like you aren’t attracted to them. Her physical connection she wants with you may be from a sense of insecurity on her part. I don’t blame the women - they are a product of how men have treated them. They run into a holy guy and they don’t even know how to act.

I would caution you though about getting involved with this girl. Missionary dating (hoping someone you are dating converts) generally does not work. I say convert them first and then date them.

Because once you fall in love, it’s too late. I had a good protestant friend that hated contraception. He used to say he was going to have 11 kids so he could have his own baseball team. He started dating this girl and I kept telling him to bring up the contraception issue. He kept saying that it was premature. well they fell in love and got married and she insisted on contracepting and he caved. I know it pains him.

God bless you
 
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FairyMagdelaine:
Call me craz-o but among other things she might think it’s kind of weird that you’re civilly married to someone else. I hear you with the whole culture of safe sex and doing it for love…but…you’re like, married. Even if it’s only civilly, shouldn’t you get that taken care of first before you enter further romantic (and complicated!) relationships?

After that…lemme just say that it is HARD to lure people to our side of the contraceptive issue. One of the more alluring aspects to NFP is that it is completely holistic, which is a word that appeals to secularists as well. We love it and find it wholly enjoyable for both involved. But first things first…take care of your current marriage…though it may be civil, it’s still not right to be dating other people. Sorry.
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I’ve gotta go with FairyMagdelaine here…something is amiss when your respect for religious teachings guide you to elevate your relationship with a woman with regard to sexual relations yet

a) you’re already married
b) civil or not, the circumstances for that marriage seem dubious - skirting the law perhaps? a marriage of convenience obviously for the other party, but then isn’t that lying and against religious teachings? even if it’s a mariage of protection for the other party, don’t civil unions exchange ‘promises’ as well? Aren’t you bound by those promises? Why aren’t you living with that spouse?? (you don’t have to answer, I’m just pointing out the red flags your statement raises.
c) it appears you entered into the civil union for honorable reasons - so why not honor the union for how ever many years the two of you made this arrangement?

On one hand you are asking this new woman to honor and accept your expression of love for her by respecting your faith’s teachings on sexuality.

On the other hand you are openly asking this new worman to invest her time, energy and emotions in you even though you are not in the position to offer her a real sacramental relationship in the near future because you are in a marriage of convenience, rather than to allow her to be free to find someone who would be able to commit himself to her.

To a non-Catholic that sends quite a mixed message, don’t you think?

I get that you have feelings for this woman, and she for you.
I get that you don’t want to lose each other - or run the risk of losing each other.
But the Catholic thing to do would call for honesty and respect above all else. Until you are out of the civil marriage I don’t see how any conditions on this relationship being based on your religious beliefs could hold any water.

But that’s just me, and probably not something you wanted to hear.
 
In a civil union the vows made can be as simple as “I won’t hit you in the face tomorrow morning”. In fact, they can be simply a matter of signing a piece of paper (which we did) which states that you’re entering into a legal contract. I would not have entered into the marriage if anything more than that was involved, and I’ve honored our contract perfectly. There is no lying involved because our marriage contract is completely honest, and is held to by both parties. The law requires nothing more from us than the commitment we’ve made and honor, so I don’t feel that I’m violating anything, and our commitment to eachother is being perfectly honored as well. Believe me when I say that if any violation of my commitment to either person was being raised by the circumstances, I would end the situation immediately.

I don’t have any problem addressing these questions, I just didn’t initially because I didn’t view them as central to the issue. If I could have a marriage in the Church aside from the purely legal, secular union I have, I would jump at it. Unfortunately that’s not an option in our society, and I respect that. I should also point out that this obligation was entered into before my accepting the Church, and I will continue to honor it (and the commitment explicitely had nothing to do with romantic relationships with others). I wouldn’t even call it a marriage in a Christian sense of the word.

As for not being able to offer her a Sacramental marriage, she herself has expressed that she isn’t ready for one, so it’s a moot point. I offered to change the circumstances, but that’s not the issue to her at all. She’s actually expressed relief that I’m legally bound elsewhere so that I can’t “pop the question” on her. She seems to want the sex outside of a Sacramental commitment, which is something I can’t offer her, and that’s the source of the problem.

It’s definately an unusual situation, and you’re right for pointing out the red flags. I certainly wouldn’t be able to understand it from the outside, either. I made it a point for her to understand the situation before we even considered being a couple in any sense. A whole discussion could be made of the difficulties our society and culture creates in the recognition of the Sacrament of Marriage, espescially given the fact that the form and matter of the Sacrament have nothing to do with secular legal recognition.

The major hurdles I have to overcome are A) stressing the Sacramental nature of the commitment, and B) stressing that contraception is a direct violation of this Sacrament. Fortunately, though admittedly confusingly, the civil marriage I have doesn’t come into play until/unless my GF decides to accept a Sacramental proposal. I’m more than happy to address any questions people have on the matter, though.
 
sigh

Just one more reason I wish I felt the calling to be a priest and not a husband and father 😛

The tangled webs we weave…
 
Ghosty…if you have entered into a civil marriage, then the Church considers you married until proven otherwise. I would advise you to quit dating. WHAT? Yes, you read correctly, quit dating. According to the Church, you are married, and have no right to be dating!

You entered into a civil marriage and you say that you have honored this civil contract…but** are** you honoring it? A civil marriage implies that you are faithful to the one you are married to. However, you write that you are dating someone who is not a party to your contract. This is not being honorable, in fact, it might just be a little adulterous even though you are not intimate with this woman.

You can get a civil divorce and then apply for a nullity of marriage. The tribunal would look at the situation and rule on the marriage…all marriages are thought to be valid unless proven otherwise. It does not matter that you entered into the marriage prior to your becoming Catholic or that it is a civil marriage.

As far as your girlfriend wanting to be intimate with you in a way that only a spouse should be, I am glad that you are holding back. God will honor that.

If your girlfriend is not Catholic, I would also strongly advise you to take another look at your relationship. As one other poster wrote, it is better to convert and then to wed than the other way around. You know, most people go into marriage thinking they will change the other person…and what happens that they end up changing themselves for no one can change another person.

Quit dating and get divorced and then get your annulment going.

I am going to pray for you - for you to have the courage to do what it takes…doing things the right way this time around! God Bless you -
 
While I have no problem discussing my marriage situation, and it is certainly complicated and worthy of discussion, I feel that it detracts from my original intent.

For now let me just say that, by my understanding, my marriage is invalid according to Canon Law because I was baptised (not practicing), and I did not receive permission to be married outside of the Church. It’s also non-Sacramental for numerous reasons, including non-consumation and absolutely no intent to be bound to one another spiritually. All of this will have to go through an annullment hearing, but as it stands now I’m not assumed to be validly married because my marriage specifically violates Canon Law. On the contrary, I would have to petition for my marriage to be recognized.

My main intention is to discuss how to talk with my GF about the reality of sex and the necessity of commitment and to ask for advice and prayers concerning this situation. The nature of the marriage, while a valid topic, is largely uninvolved with this particular situation. If anyone wants to PM me for more details on the marriage issue, however, I’d be happy to discuss it.
 
Oh Ghosty…your marriage is recognized by the Church as you were baptized and you are now Roman Catholic. You need to see a priest for claification. The fact that you have a civil marriage, as I stated before, means that you should not be dating.

As far as dating and not engaging in pre-marital coitus, that is a good plan, but you are putting the cart before the donkey, so to write. You are not free to date!

You have entered into a civil contract and that contract needs to be upheld. If you entered into that contract for any reason other than love and wanting to be married, in the sense that our society thinks of marriage, then you have committed fraud and you need to straighten this out.

Please, if you do not believe me, please make an appointment with your parish priest and ask him what all the ramifications are of this “tangled web that you have woven.”
 
I know you don’t want to focus on your marital situation but curiousity is killing me.

Why would you enter into a civil “marriage” in which you say that you both agreed that is would be OK to be romantic with others? What is the purpose of anyone doing that?
 
As to your original question… I recommend you buy, read and share: If You Really Loved Me, 100 Questions on Dating, Relationships, and Sexual Purity by Jason Evert. It’s published by Catholic Answers and is available through their catalog.
 
Oh Ghosty…your marriage is recognized by the Church as you were baptized and you are now Roman Catholic. You need to see a priest for claification. The fact that you have a civil marriage, as I stated before, means that you should not be dating.
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I’ve already consulted Canon Lawyers on this matter. For a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic to be valid they must either take place in Church, or outside of the Church only with permission from the Bishop. Neither of these are the case. An annullment must still be applied for, but it’s merely a matter of paperwork in situations such as this. Had neither of us been Baptised, this would have been completely different. Jimmy Akin addresses this issue as well on his website:

cin.org/users/james/questions/q069.html

It wasn’t planned with this intent, but I’ve since learned of the reality of the situation after regaining my faith and inquiring on the matter.
If you entered into that contract for any reason other than love and wanting to be married, in the sense that our society thinks of marriage, then you have committed fraud and you need to straighten this out.
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I disagree. Society often views marriage as a contract for many purposes, whether money, security, or for the sake of children. Our Catholic lense puts a spin on civil marriage that often doesn’t exist. If society viewed marriage in the way you describe, then divorce would not simply be a matter of paper signing. Obviously we have different views on the matter, but I’ll sum up mine by saying that I in no way consider civil marriage to be anything like Sacramental Marriage; the recent inclusion of homosexual unions into the definition proves this beyond a doubt in my mind.
Why would you enter into a civil “marriage” in which you say that you both agreed that is would be OK to be romantic with others? What is the purpose of anyone doing that?
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PM me if you’re REALLY dying to know 😛
 
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