I can't cope with sexless marriage

[Mummsie]

The OP says nothing to suggest that the woman could possibly be “ragingly angry”. If she is, he would seem not very perceptive…

No, he didn’t say that. But he did say she wasn’t really talking to him like she normally does. And she talks normally with everyone else. That sounds pretty obvious she has a problem with him, right? One does not need to be ragingly angry to not want to make love. Deeply hurt could do it too. Many, Many, things.

God Bless You.

 

[Rau]

…But he did say she wasn’t really talking to him like she normally does. And she talks normally with everyone else. That sounds pretty obvious she has a problem with him, right? One does not need to be ragingly angry to not want to make love. Deeply hurt could do it too. Many, Many, things.

There is no reason to suspect “raging anger” as the other posted suggested.

Plainly something is amiss. We must assume it has gone on for a while, or the OP would not be appealing to CAF. One would think that the OP - who by omission in his post is apparently unaware of exactly what is causing his wife’s behaviour, might ask her what has upset her prior to asking CAF “how to cope with a sexless marriage”.

 

[pianistclare]

One would think so, yes.
But the implication is that the lack of intimacy (sex) is his big issue.
He said nothing about what her big issue was. He seems to genuinely not know what’s wrong. I think that’s likely why everyone is suggesting they talk it out. He doesn’t mention any discussions.

So, yeah, I guess we’ll never know; he’s gone apparently.

 

[Xantippe]

I was going off the fact that the OP said “In the past she uses lack of sex to punish me she gets annoyed and says she takes it away.”

It sounds like she does have a history of expressing anger through lack of marital relations.

She may not be literally “ragingly angry,” but there definitely seems to be some anger.

There’s a secular writer named Julia Grey who has an old (but often very helpful) blog entitled “Why Your Wife Won’t Have Sex With You.” She has a whole section devoted to anger. Here are some snippets:

“As I grew up I somehow absorbed the thought that when there was conflict in a relationship it was My Job to sop up and dispose of as much of the negative energy as possible, so that the conflict wouldn’t manifest itself in Unpleasantness.”

But unfortunately, that meant that when her husband did stuff that made her angry, she just stuffed her anger and it came out as sexual disinterest and refusal.

“I simmered about it. I stewed. I walked around in a perpetual haze of resentment, practically ticking his sins off on my fingers. Other annoyances that had absolutely no relation to domestic chores took on more importance and seemed more awful because I was too weak to confront him about the household stuff. And — most important for our purposes here — the last thing I wanted to do was have sex with him.”

“Combining anger and sex is often problematic for a woman because the physiology of the most usual acts requires that she allow her body to be penetrated. A certain, shall we say, receptivity is essential. I’m avoiding the word “surrender” here, because it has a lot of connotations that are not necessarily operative, but many women do (if only unconsciously) see the sex act as something of a submission scenario — which can be very much enjoyed when she is happy with a man, but which can also be a major turn-off if she’s furious with him. Even leaving the physical aspects of the act aside, it’s psychologically difficult to “give in” to a request for a special goodie from someone you’re [ticked off] at. It’s like he’s asking for candy bar when you’d really like to give him a whack in the chops.”

juliagrey.wordpress.com/challenges/anger/

There is no reason to suspect “raging anger” as the other posted suggested.

Plainly something is amiss. We must assume it has gone on for a while, or the OP would not be appealing to CAF. One would think that the OP - who by omission in his post is apparently unaware of exactly what is causing his wife’s behaviour, might ask her what has upset her prior to asking CAF “how to cope with a sexless marriage”.

 

[Nelka]

He was using it as an example to explain the situation. He didn’t really mean he wasn’t allowed to eat the food in the house without permission. Got me first read through too.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

I was going off the fact that the OP said “In the past she uses lack of sex to punish me she gets annoyed and says she takes it away.”

It sounds like she does have a history of expressing anger through lack of marital relations.

She may not be literally “ragingly angry,” but there definitely seems to be some anger.

There’s a secular writer named Julia Grey who has an old (but often very helpful) blog entitled “Why Your Wife Won’t Have Sex With You.” She has a whole section devoted to anger. Here are some snippets:

“As I grew up I somehow absorbed the thought that when there was conflict in a relationship it was My Job to sop up and dispose of as much of the negative energy as possible, so that the conflict wouldn’t manifest itself in Unpleasantness.”

But unfortunately, that meant that when her husband did stuff that made her angry, she just stuffed her anger and it came out as sexual disinterest and refusal.

“I simmered about it. I stewed. I walked around in a perpetual haze of resentment, practically ticking his sins off on my fingers. Other annoyances that had absolutely no relation to domestic chores took on more importance and seemed more awful because I was too weak to confront him about the household stuff. And — most important for our purposes here — the last thing I wanted to do was have sex with him.”

“Combining anger and sex is often problematic for a woman because the physiology of the most usual acts requires that she allow her body to be penetrated. A certain, shall we say, receptivity is essential. I’m avoiding the word “surrender” here, because it has a lot of connotations that are not necessarily operative, but many women do (if only unconsciously) see the sex act as something of a submission scenario — which can be very much enjoyed when she is happy with a man, but which can also be a major turn-off if she’s furious with him. Even leaving the physical aspects of the act aside, it’s psychologically difficult to “give in” to a request for a special goodie from someone you’re [ticked off] at. It’s like he’s asking for candy bar when you’d really like to give him a whack in the chops.”

juliagrey.wordpress.com/challenges/anger/

Okay. That all makes sense. However, I don’t think it answers the underlying questions posed by this thread. A) Aside from health issues is there a good reason for either spouse to withhold sex from the other? B) Is it ever morally acceptable for the wife to use sex as a way to punish her husband, especially if she refuses to communicate?

 

[pianistclare]

Okay. That all makes sense. However, I don’t think it answers the underlying questions posed by this thread. A) Aside from health issues is there a good reason for either spouse to withhold sex from the other? B) Is it ever morally acceptable for the wife to use sex as a way to punish her husband, especially if she refuses to communicate?

Again, I feel like we are missing a HUGE portion of the story.
She’s using sex to punish him, right?
For what?
It happens a lot.
Why?
Apparently the “discussion” part is either missing or not fruitful.
Why?

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, I bolded the part of your statement for a specific reason and that is because I used to think this way, but found a new freedom in believing differently.

This way of thinking is common and very cultural but it not what happens in a sacramental marriage. When I joined my husband and became ONE FLESH that was literal and spiritual. My body belongs to him just as much as it does to me because we are one body… I do not “allow” my husband to enjoy my body, because it is in fact his body.

Believe me this took me a long time to appreciate! I had a hard time with the idea that a spouse (woman or man) should engage in the marital act when they were upset. However the marital act is similar to all other loving acts, spouses should still hug each other, take care of each other when sick, they should still say “I love you”, should still make meals, spouses should still stay together and do all sorts of things even when they are upset with one another.

The exception is when one spouse is using another purely for sex or treating their spouse as an object. Sometimes this line can be blurry I grant you that when clouded with many emotions, and when in a very difficult marriage often couples need counseling.
When spouses are sick or feeling tired of course they should lovingly tell their spouse they don’t have the energy for sex, and a loving spouse would understand and respect that. It is the denial of relations repeatedly that can be destructive. Just as if a husband were to say to his wife “I am not going to hug you anymore or say I love you because I just don’t feel like it anymore” would be cruel because often words and gentle touch bring much warmth into a marriage that is very needed.

God bless you I always enjoy reading your posts you are very thoughtful. Thank you for an interesting dialogue.

TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER: I am sorry for what you are going through. Your wife should not be manipulating like this (if that is indeed what she is doing) but telling you that she is wrong is not useful. You need to try and find the core of what is happening, and also seek counsel so that neither of you withhold love, affection or sex as a weapon in the future. God bless and pleas be assured of my prayers.

Excellent response.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

Again, I feel like we are missing a HUGE portion of the story.
She’s using sex to punish him, right?
For what?
It happens a lot.
Why?
Apparently the “discussion” part is either missing or not fruitful.
Why?

I would agree that the “discussion” part is not fruitful, and assuming that the OP is telling the truth I would say that it is because his wife does not seem interested in discussing anything. I could be misunderstanding you, but it sounds like your response is an attempt to absolve the wife of any and all blame in this matter. Let’s assume (and I grant that it’s not an unreasonable assumption) that the wife’s behavior is in response to something the husband did or didn’t do. Odds are he has no idea where and how he “screwed up”, so how is it reasonable to expect him to just figure it out on his own?

Moreover, even if he did do something to anger her your response still begs two questions: A) Does she have a good reason to be angry? B) Even if she does, does that make it okay to withhold intercourse from a spouse who, as far as I can tell, is not objectifying or otherwise abusing her?

 

[pianistclare]

I would agree that the “discussion” part is not fruitful, and assuming that the OP is telling the truth I would say that it is because his wife does not seem interested in discussing anything. I could be misunderstanding you, but it sounds like your response is an attempt to absolve the wife of any and all blame in this matter. Let’s assume (and I grant that it’s not an unreasonable assumption) that the wife’s behavior is in response to something the husband did or didn’t do. Odds are he has no idea where and how he “screwed up”, so how is it reasonable to expect him to just figure it out on his own?

Moreover, even if he did do something to anger her your response still begs two questions: A) Does she have a good reason to be angry? B) Even if she does, does that make it okay to withhold intercourse from a spouse who, as far as I can tell, is not objectifying or otherwise abusing her?

When did I say that?
I’m all for hearing both sides though, unlike some who have already settled the matter.
Sheesh.

The point is, NONE of us know the whole story.
Not you or me.
Don’t put words in my mouth though, OK?
Thanks.

 

[Xantippe]

Okay. That all makes sense. However, I don’t think it answers the underlying questions posed by this thread. A) Aside from health issues is there a good reason for either spouse to withhold sex from the other? B) Is it ever morally acceptable for the wife to use sex as a way to punish her husband, especially if she refuses to communicate?

I don’t think that was actually the question in the OP.

The OP is being refused and is having a tough time dealing with it, and he suspects that he is being punished for something, because that’s what has happened in the past. At least as I read him, he wanted to know what to DO and how to get out of his current situation because he feels miserable. That’s rather distinct from him asking for the exact degree of moral culpability his wife carries.

Aside from that not being his question, we simply aren’t in a good position to figure that out for him:

–we don’t know about her physical state (hormonal stuff can be nasty)
–we don’t know what psychological issues she may have (she may have issues with physical self-confidence, especially after having children)
–we don’t know the ages of their children (they may have a tiny baby and she may be having a lot of anxiety over postpartum NFP or they may have teens that are working her last nerve)
–we don’t know what their relationship looks like day to day or what her stated (or unstated) grievances are

There may be some biggies in the last one–for instance, what if it turns out that our OP bathes infrequently or refuses to go to the dentist? That may sound weird, but it’s a surprisingly common problem. (Try googling "my husband won’t brush his teeth/see the dentist/bathe for examples.)

I think this is a case for investigation rather than for issuing snap judgments.

 

[Xantippe]

I was more describing to the OP what I think his wife’s feelings may be rather than giving advice for what she ought to do.

She’s not here, after all.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, I bolded the part of your statement for a specific reason and that is because I used to think this way, but found a new freedom in believing differently.

This way of thinking is common and very cultural but it not what happens in a sacramental marriage. When I joined my husband and became ONE FLESH that was literal and spiritual. My body belongs to him just as much as it does to me because we are one body… I do not “allow” my husband to enjoy my body, because it is in fact his body.

Believe me this took me a long time to appreciate! I had a hard time with the idea that a spouse (woman or man) should engage in the marital act when they were upset. However the marital act is similar to all other loving acts, spouses should still hug each other, take care of each other when sick, they should still say “I love you”, should still make meals, spouses should still stay together and do all sorts of things even when they are upset with one another.

The exception is when one spouse is using another purely for sex or treating their spouse as an object. Sometimes this line can be blurry I grant you that when clouded with many emotions, and when in a very difficult marriage often couples need counseling.
When spouses are sick or feeling tired of course they should lovingly tell their spouse they don’t have the energy for sex, and a loving spouse would understand and respect that. It is the denial of relations repeatedly that can be destructive. Just as if a husband were to say to his wife “I am not going to hug you anymore or say I love you because I just don’t feel like it anymore” would be cruel because often words and gentle touch bring much warmth into a marriage that is very needed.

God bless you I always enjoy reading your posts you are very thoughtful. Thank you for an interesting dialogue.

TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER: I am sorry for what you are going through. Your wife should not be manipulating like this (if that is indeed what she is doing) but telling you that she is wrong is not useful. You need to try and find the core of what is happening, and also seek counsel so that neither of you withhold love, affection or sex as a weapon in the future. God bless and pleas be assured of my prayers.

 

[Rau]

Hello I am ‘M’ a Catholic who is having a hard time with my marriage at the moment. My wife is not having sex with me and I dont know how to cope with it as I feel it couldbe this way forever. She is 30+ and has no major illness or anything and isnt really talking to me the way she normally does but is fine with others still. She isnt saying she is tired or busy just an abrupt no. In the past she uses lack of sex to punish me she gets annoyed and says she takes it away. It has been a while since last time and I find it very difficult like I havent eaten for a while but all cupboards are full of food which my wife wont let me eat. I pray a lot that things return to normal but nothing yet. I may sound selfish but it is also the most unitive thing between us when afterwards we cuddle differently. I work I look after children ours and do much around the house so its not like I am homer simpson. Sorry.

You paint a picture of a marriage with little communication. That you say nothing about any effort on your part to enquire of your wife what might be troubling her is, to say the least, odd. Rather than praying to God for a “fix”, why not pray for a productive conversation with your wife?

 

[pianistclare]

You paint a picture of a marriage with little communication. That you say nothing about any effort on your part to enquire of your wife what might be troubling her is, to say the least, odd. Rather than praying to God for a “fix”, why not pray for a productive conversation with your wife?

Exactly.

 

[ShadowBoxer]

When did I say that?
I’m all for hearing both sides though, unlike some who have already settled the matter.
Sheesh.

The point is, NONE of us know the whole story.
Not you or me.
Don’t put words in my mouth though, OK?
Thanks.

A) You didn’t say much of anything. Your response was a series of general, open-ended questions that did little more than make implications. If you recall, I did say that I might be misunderstanding you, but it’s kinda hard not to ‘put words in your mouth’ when there are so few words to begin with.

B) My original post was in response to Xantippe. I thought that while her post did a good job at articulating a possible explanation for the behavior of the OP’s wife, there were some significant moral implications that were not being discussed. Why do I care? I don’t believe that it is right to withhold sex within marriage unless there is a good reason - i.e. health issues or one partner is objectifying the other. If you would rather discuss this issue on another thread that’s fine, but I think it should be discussed somewhere.

C) Does anybody ever know the WHOLE story? What I do know is that the OP has needs that are not being met and that (unless the OP is lying) his lack of sexual activity is a direct result his wife’s flat refusal to have intercourse with him. Moreover, his wife has used sex as a means of punishing him in the past. I posed a simple question: Is that kind of behavior acceptable from either spouse? If your point was to say “It’s not that simple” then I respectfully disagree. Now if the OP’s wife would like to share her side of the story, then I’m all ears. Until she does, however speculating about the particulars of the ‘whole story’ is just that – speculation. Speculation does not benefit anyone on this thread.

 

[pianistclare]

A) You didn’t say much of anything. Your response was a series of general, open-ended questions that did little more than make implications. If you recall, I did say that I might be misunderstanding you, but it’s kinda hard not to ‘put words in your mouth’ when there are so few words to begin with.

B) My original post was in response to Xantippe. I thought that while her post did a good job at articulating a possible explanation for the behavior of the OP’s wife, there were some significant moral implications that were not being discussed. Why do I care? I don’t believe that it is right to withhold sex within marriage unless there is a good reason - i.e. health issues or one partner is objectifying the other. If you would rather discuss this issue on another thread that’s fine, but I think it should be discussed somewhere.

C) Does anybody ever know the WHOLE story? What I do know is that the OP has needs that are not being met and that (unless the OP is lying) his lack of sexual activity is a direct result his wife’s flat refusal to have intercourse with him. Moreover, his wife has used sex as a means of punishing him in the past. I posed a simple question: Is that kind of behavior acceptable from either spouse? If your point was to say “It’s not that simple” then I respectfully disagree. Now if the OP’s wife would like to share her side of the story, then I’m all ears. Until she does, however speculating about the particulars of the ‘whole story’ is just that – speculation. Speculation does not benefit anyone on this thread.

You quoted me though. Not Xantippe.
And yeah, you’re making just as many assumptions. Like assuming that I find the wife guiltless.
No worries, I’m out. This thread has run its course.

 

[pensmama87]

A) You didn’t say much of anything. Your response was a series of general, open-ended questions that did little more than make implications. If you recall, I did say that I might be misunderstanding you, but it’s kinda hard not to ‘put words in your mouth’ when there are so few words to begin with.

B) My original post was in response to Xantippe. I thought that while her post did a good job at articulating a possible explanation for the behavior of the OP’s wife, there were some significant moral implications that were not being discussed. Why do I care? I don’t believe that it is right to withhold sex within marriage unless there is a good reason - i.e. health issues or one partner is objectifying the other. If you would rather discuss this issue on another thread that’s fine, but I think it should be discussed somewhere.

C) Does anybody ever know the WHOLE story? What I do know is that the OP has needs that are not being met and that (unless the OP is lying) his lack of sexual activity is a direct result his wife’s flat refusal to have intercourse with him. Moreover, his wife has used sex as a means of punishing him in the past. I posed a simple question: Is that kind of behavior acceptable from either spouse? If your point was to say “It’s not that simple” then I respectfully disagree. Now if the OP’s wife would like to share her side of the story, then I’m all ears. Until she does, however speculating about the particulars of the ‘whole story’ is just that – speculation. Speculation does not benefit anyone on this thread.

It is unacceptable, but the wife isn’t here, and the husband isn’t likely to get far by discussing moral obligations. As is often brought up on marital advice threads, is it better to be right or be married?

Not infrequently, it’s the spouse who is “less wrong” who gets the ball rolling on fixing a problem. I suspect that may be in part because they are not so mired in self-destructive behavior, and so have more ability to start fixing it. Is that fair? No, but at the same time, marriage is not really about “fair.”

Most of us have recommended outside help. If he’s upholding his vows, and his wife is cold and heartless, a competent therapist is going to be able to see that. A professional could also help him address areas he might be missing, and those would include the suggestions of several married women on this thread. None of that excuses the wife’s behavior, but fixing an underlying issue, if there is one, will help end it. It may not be until that point that real reconciliation can happen.

 

[Xantippe]

It is unacceptable, but the wife isn’t here, and the husband isn’t likely to get far by discussing moral obligations. As is often brought up on marital advice threads, is it better to be right or be married?

Not infrequently, it’s the spouse who is “less wrong” who gets the ball rolling on fixing a problem. I suspect that may be in part because they are not so mired in self-destructive behavior, and so have more ability to start fixing it. Is that fair? No, but at the same time, marriage is not really about “fair.”

Most of us have recommended outside help. If he’s upholding his vows, and his wife is cold and heartless, a competent therapist is going to be able to see that. A professional could also help him address areas he might be missing, and those would include the suggestions of several married women on this thread. None of that excuses the wife’s behavior, but fixing an underlying issue, if there is one, will help end it. It may not be until that point that real reconciliation can happen.

Right.

Also, if his wife is cold and heartless and eeeevil, what is the point of telling her what her “duty” is?

If she’s cold and heartless and eeeevil, nothing you can say will make a difference. What sort of hope does the OP have if she’s like that?

However, if she isn’t cold and heartless and eeevil, then presumably there’s a reason that she hasn’t been feeling up to marital relations. There could be physical issues, psychological issues, holiday stress, fear of pregnancy, a difficult interpersonal situation that has nothing to do with the OP, marriage issues, kid issues, etc.

There’s no need to immediately assume the worst.

Also, if I were the OP, I’d be MUCH more concerned about the fact that she has stopped talking to him than that she is avoiding marital relations.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

A wife who uses access to her body as a weapon does not respect her husband and to judge from the OP’s post, likely has not respected him in awhile. She doesn’t even respect him enough to tell him what’s up with her latest refusals. Somewhere along the line, he lost that respect and he needs to figure that out, hopefully with her (name removed by moderator)ut, but he may have to figure it out without her (name removed by moderator)ut. Doesn’t mean she has no responsibility to him for her side of it as she appears to be failing to verbally communicate the reason(s) for her displeasure to him. He knows something is up, but he cannot read her mind.

 

[Xantippe]

A wife who uses access to her body as a weapon does not respect her husband and to judge from the OP’s post, likely has not respected him in awhile. She doesn’t even respect him enough to tell him what’s up with her latest refusals. Somewhere along the line, he lost that respect and he needs to figure that out, hopefully with her (name removed by moderator)ut, but he may have to figure it out without her (name removed by moderator)ut. Doesn’t mean she has no responsibility to him for her side of it as she appears to be failing to verbally communicate the reason(s) for her displeasure to him. He knows something is up, but he cannot read her mind.

1. She might not know.

A lot of times with hormonal stuff, there’s increased irritability combined with a total lack of self-insight and proportion.

1. I think you overestimate the importance of respect, or at least you’re treating it as the only factor, which it isn’t. It’s not that the female libido has just a “respect” switch–it’s more like a piano or keyboard with lots of different keys. Here are some items that Julia Grey mentions on her blog:

–disgust
–discomfort
–distraction
–boredom
–anger
–insecurity
–diet issues (a woman who is sticking to a diet may be crabby, volatile and uninterested in sex)
–motherhood
–history of abuse
–bad peer group
–aging
–depression

And I suspect there are a lot more than that.