I can't remember useful verses, arguements, etc

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Hello everyone 🙂

I noticed i have much trouble remembering a lot of the material I read regarding subjects like the Eucharist, the Communion of Saints and intercession, baptism, and even fairly simple responses to things like “call no man Father” . Do you have any advice or tips that I can use to retain more information? And does this happen to anyone else? It gets discouraging at times.

Thank you all 🙂
 
I’ve been doing Catholic apologetics for twenty years. I know a grand total of two chapter/verse citations - Matt 16:18 (Peter as the rock), and John 20:23 (forgiveness of sins).

But I know many more verses (just not citation numbers). In the old days I used a concordance, but nowadays I just type a few keywords into Google.

Consider the “call no man father” argument. It is faulty on several levels, but I think the most convincing is the simple fact that Paul calls himself a spiritual “father.” For example:
For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me. For this reason I have sent to you Timothy, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord [1Cor 4:15-17]
A minute ago, I could not have even told you which book that verse was in. But I remembered the essence of the passage and was able to find it very quickly.

That works fine on the forum, where I can always hop over to Google. When talking face-to-face it is not as effective (it remains to be seen if smartphones will prove effective here - I have SERIOUS doubts). In such situation, I am forced to be somewhat vague, but also a bit sneaky. I would ask, “If I could show you, in the plain text of Scripture, that Paul himself calls himself a spiritual father, what would you think about that?” Of course, they will challenge me to cite the verse (which I could not do), but I would say (in a vague and uncertain way), “well, I can’t right now. I’ll look in Scripture tonight and see if I can find something” — knowing full well that I can, but this might allow my friend to puff up his arrogance - “you’ll never find anything like that” - which makes the Biblical proof even more memorable when I do.

You cannot do Catholic apologetics without a basic knowledge of the Bible (especially the New Testament). But you don’t need to memorize chapter and verse (and sometimes it’s best to leave the question hanging for a little while).
 
I’ve been doing Catholic apologetics for twenty years. I know a grand total of two chapter/verse citations - Matt 16:18 (Peter as the rock), and John 20:23 (forgiveness of sins).

But I know many more verses (just not citation numbers). In the old days I used a concordance, but nowadays I just type a few keywords into Google.

Consider the “call no man father” argument. It is faulty on several levels, but I think the most convincing is the simple fact that Paul calls himself a spiritual “father.” For example:

A minute ago, I could not have even told you which book that verse was in. But I remembered the essence of the passage and was able to find it very quickly.

That works fine on the forum, where I can always hop over to Google. When talking face-to-face it is not as effective (it remains to be seen if smartphones will prove effective here - I have SERIOUS doubts). In such situation, I am forced to be somewhat vague, but also a bit sneaky. I would ask, “If I could show you, in the plain text of Scripture, that Paul himself calls himself a spiritual father, what would you think about that?” Of course, they will challenge me to cite the verse (which I could not do), but I would say (in a vague and uncertain way), “well, I can’t right now. I’ll look in Scripture tonight and see if I can find something” — knowing full well that I can, but this might allow my friend to puff up his arrogance - “you’ll never find anything like that” - which makes the Biblical proof even more memorable when I do.

You cannot do Catholic apologetics without a basic knowledge of the Bible (especially the New Testament). But you don’t need to memorize chapter and verse (and sometimes it’s best to leave the question hanging for a little while).
Hmm that’s interesting. I guess I just put too much pressure on myself 😊 I’ve seen a lot of your posts around the forums and they’re REALLY helpful and clear. Which makes me think, maybe it’s not so much about how many verses I can remember offhand, but how well i can explain something to someone.

That raises another question for me though, do discussions face to face usually consist of vague statements that you can get back to later? Or just explaining something with an occasional Bible verse? For example, when I talk to someone in person i usually say something like "What’s weird is that just a few verses after Jesus says to call no man Father, He Himself calls so someone else Father, and he isn’t referring to our heavenly Father. St Stephen, the first Christian martyr also called men Father while filled with the Holy Spirit, and what about the commandments “honor your mother and Father?” is that okay? Not much Biblical citations, but references…
 
Hello everyone 🙂

I noticed i have much trouble remembering a lot of the material I read regarding subjects like the Eucharist, the Communion of Saints and intercession, baptism, and even fairly simple responses to things like “call no man Father” . Do you have any advice or tips that I can use to retain more information? And does this happen to anyone else? It gets discouraging at times.

Thank you all 🙂
I am like you and I do not feel unhappy.
If that bothers you, repeat 100 times each verse. It will stick like cement…
 
I’ve seen a lot of your posts around the forums and they’re REALLY helpful and clear.
Well, thanks for that. I do my best.
Which makes me think, maybe it’s not so much about how many verses I can remember offhand, but how well i can explain something to someone.
Exactly.

FWIW, I have only known one protestant who seemed to have memorized the whole New Testament (chapter and verse) - and that was 15 years ago. Most protestants seem to know only a small fraction. At ease, brother - your average protestant probably knows less about Scripture than your average Catholic (at least Catholics have an orderly cycle of readings at Mass, instead of the pastor’s favorite passages cited again and again).
That raises another question for me though, do discussions face to face usually consist of vague statements that you can get back to later?
Every situation is different. There are so many things to consider - will you have an opportunity to revisit the question soon? This is possible with a friend or coworker or teammate or whatever - someone you have frequent contact with. In these relationships I prefer a more protracted approach. Learn a lesson from the entertainment industry - there is effective value in suspense. Any magician knows this. He SLOWWWLY saws the girl in half, right? The act “works” whether he is fast or slow, but it is so much more memorable when he moves slowly.

This is nothing new. Consider the Socratic method (which I hinted at in my original response). Ask questions instead of making statements (“what would you think about that?”). Questions encourage your listener; you take his opinions seriously. The more questions you ask, the more answers he gives (and thus he has more “skin in the game”). But, as any good lawyer will say, never ask a question unless you already know the answer.

You want to draw your listener into the conversation as deeply as possible. If a guy challenges you with “call no man father,” and you immediately destroy his objection by quoting and citing 1Cor 4:15-17, he’s gonna run for the hills (and probably never talk to you again). You won’t find one in a thousand protestants who could mount a counter-defensive (and the one who could doesn’t stand a chance).
what about the commandments “honor your mother and Father?” is that okay? Not much Biblical citations, but references…
That’s OK, but you need to be careful. I have never known a protestant who would reject the idea of calling his biological male parent (or ancestor), “father” (grandfather, etc). They would say: “Obviously” Jesus did not mean to exclude such a biologically-natural application of the term. Whether or not it is really “obvious” is a topic for a completely irrelevant and unproductive discussion, so don’t go there.

I would rather say, “gee-whiz, I dunno - lemme go look it up” than cite something on-the-spot that is not my best response.
 
One thing that helps retention is repetition.

One of the best sources I’ve found is from John Martignoni’s Bible Christian Society, where you will find his free MP3
Two-Minute Apologetics
Code:
   19 different topics in short Q&A format.
I suggest that you put it in your Ipod or comp or burn to a CD and just relax and listen to it whenever you feel like it. It will sink in and it may also prove that you are one of those people who better retains stuff by hearing it than reading it. 🤷

You can always just get a notebook and take notes. Sometimes that helps us retain information just by writing it down. 🙂
 
Be satisfied with the robustness of your own faith. The world needs more disciples of Christ and evangelists who spread the gospel through example than it does apologetics who are walking filing cabinets unable to show the love of Christ through actions.

Others are more apt to remember what you do than what you say.

“always preach the gospel and use words if necessary”
 
My apologetic ability is extremely limited but YES I have trouble coming up with “chapter and verse” for many things. Like David, I have a couple citations that I can readily recall while others - I know the citation or the gist of it but cannot readily come op with it’s location. So - also like David…I use the internet to quickly locate them.
Also - I second Church Militant’s comment about repetition…

That said, I also have on my computer some word documents “crib sheets” with certain quotes, links, definitions, etc. I suppose I could print these out - but since I’m pretty much “home-bound” I do most of my apologetic work on-line…🤷

In face to face situations I would not be too worried about being able to quote “ch+vs”. Honestly a lot of times such things sound too “canned” and also one can simply get into a “battle of verses” and context is quickly lost. If the other person truly “knows” their NT then when you reference certain passages, they will also recognize them or desire to look them up later…And this can be a really good thing because then they start to see things in scripture that they hadn’t before…

Peace
James
 
I agree just know THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM argument, MT1618-19. I’ve used it on JWs and Mormons. One thng I add to the Mt 16:18, is linage and continuity is important. All the list of linage in old and new testament show authority of Jews/Jesus. God being the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob also shows linage of the true Faith.(Essa brother of Jacob also belived in God but wasn’t the true Faith.) If their church can’t show linage then not true Church.
I agree Jn 20:23 is really useful too.

A philosophical argument that always works is “Are you infallible?” Use the word “infallible” and make sure they understand it. They will react like a vampire to holy water LOL. This works with liberals and atheists too, because “they could be wrong.” Once they admit they “could be wrong” no need to go further because that means “you could be right” the end “I will pray for you” 🙂

Don’t be embarrassed to have a list of bible quotes on paper in your wallet. If they insult you for it, offer it up for their conversion, just say you have a bad memory.

I have the same problem remembering stuff and printed this detailed “cheat sheet” and leave it in my car.
catholicvox.blogspot.com/2012/05/cathollic-cheat-sheet.html
 
Just to add to all of the wonderful advice already given…

Just remember that every apologetic discussion is ultimately going to come down to one thing - one unavoidable issue around which swirls everything else…Authority.
After all of the back and forth of this verse and that passage; of this really means that and “you are misunderstanding (misinterpreting) what he says here”…the ultimate question will have to be - which of our personal, prayerful, “Spirit Guided” - and yet conflicting understandings is correct? How do we resolve this issue? Who has the authority to determine???

What does Scripture say???

Scripture says it is “The Church”

The Church is the pillar and bulwark of Truth (1 Tim 3:15)
The Church has authority to bind and loose - whatever (Mt 16:17-19) (Mt 18:15-18)
The Church settles arguments between distant church communities in a wonderful example of the instructions given in Mt 18…(Acts 15)
The Church is the vehicle by which God reveals His Wisdom to the world. (Eph 3:8-12)
Christ and the Apostles exhort the faithful to unity…to be of one mind
John 17:20-21
20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Rom 15:5-6
5 May the God of endurance and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus, 6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 1:10
I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

2 Cor 13:11
Finally, brothers, rejoice. Aim for restoration, comfort one another, agree with one another, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you.

Php 1:27
Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel,

1 Pet 3:8
Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.

These calls to unity, along with the instructions in the Gospel of Mt and the example in Acts as well as Paul’s presenting his teachings to Peter and others to assure they are correct…All of these things point clearly to doctrinal unity in a visible and authoritative Church.
Scripture Alone (Sola Scriptura) offers nothing in support of the (evangelical?) protestant view of “church” and “authority” that comes anywhere close to this preponderance of evidence for the RC/EO “Model” of Church structure.
I say this with confidence because I have repeatedly asked protestant apologists to counter this evidence with “equally compelling” evidence for what I call the “Protestant model” of locally independent church communities. They just simply cannot do it…

Peace
James
 
You should consider using Spaced Repetition Software (SRS). It’s a fantastic tool for memorizing anything.

Here is a link to a very popular, and free, SRS

ankisrs.net/
 
How about an app for electronic devices? :newidea: Anybody know of one?
 
How about an app for electronic devices? :newidea: Anybody know of one?
Are you talking about smartphone apps? If so, there are a great number of them out for droids. I have several on my phone that I use on a regular basis, not to mention the quick reference bible, concordance, and catechism.

For instance, there is one called “Catholic Cheat Sheet.”
Another GREAT one is “Answers 4 Catholics.” They actually have the menu broken down by the “issue,” for instance Sola Scriptura…then when you click on it there is the next menu which lists Catholic bible verses, non catholic bible verses, church fathers, etc. It also has a section entitled 2 Minute FAQ’s that deals with the great majority of protestant objections. It’s an amazing tool to have readily handy.

Lastly, I just wanted to add that I think it’s just as important to give others the resources to find the answers as well. I always tell people they don’t have to take my word for it and then provide them with the resources. They may forget what you say 5 minutes after they walk away, but if you give them the resource they can go back to it over and over again and really internalize it. Kinda the whole, “give a man a fish,” thing.
 
Are you talking about smartphone apps? If so, there are a great number of them out for droids. I have several on my phone that I use on a regular basis, not to mention the quick reference bible, concordance, and catechism.

For instance, there is one called “Catholic Cheat Sheet.”
Another GREAT one is “Answers 4 Catholics.” They actually have the menu broken down by the “issue,” for instance Sola Scriptura…then when you click on it there is the next menu which lists Catholic bible verses, non catholic bible verses, church fathers, etc. It also has a section entitled 2 Minute FAQ’s that deals with the great majority of protestant objections. It’s an amazing tool to have readily handy.

Lastly, I just wanted to add that I think it’s just as important to give others the resources to find the answers as well. I always tell people they don’t have to take my word for it and then provide them with the resources. They may forget what you say 5 minutes after they walk away, but if you give them the resource they can go back to it over and over again and really internalize it. Kinda the whole, “give a man a fish,” thing.
Thanks I will down load it now.👍
 
Very interested to know what you think, so when you have a chance let us know.
I could not download “Catholic Cheat Sheet” on my android but I did get “Answers 4 Catholics” and it seems to be great. 👍 Looks like all the information is there to be had but not sure at this time how readily handy it will be when the need arises. I will be playing with it over the next few weeks.

Thanks!
 
Someone here mentioned asking “Would you be surprised if I could show you where it says in the Bible…”? Or something to that tune. I REALLY like this approach. That gives you a moment to grab your Google Device Of Choice and looking it up for the person.

I personally like BibleGateway.com for scripture because you are often met with “Yeah but what does it say in MY Bible”. You can get every translation on biblegateway from NAB to King James.
 
Hello everyone 🙂

I noticed i have much trouble remembering a lot of the material I read regarding subjects like the Eucharist, the Communion of Saints and intercession, baptism, and even fairly simple responses to things like “call no man Father” . Do you have any advice or tips that I can use to retain more information? And does this happen to anyone else? It gets discouraging at times.

Thank you all 🙂
Apologetics is like anything else. It takes time, study, and effort. You will get better by continuous study. I like to take the difficult to answer issues and write my own personal responses based upon my study. I likewise gain insight from discussions and debates that I have engaged in. Writing these things down reinforces the information and answers. Anytime you get new information, update what you’ve written down. Reading, discussion, and writing things down puts all of your learning senses to work and will help you retain the information much better.

Apologetics demands that you immerse yourself in the material. Not everyone can do that. I personally find it spiritually rewarding. Rather than a burden it becomes a joy. You have to be passionate about it. Apologetics is not for everyone, and it demands a lot of time and study. Prayerful study is the best way to approach it.

God bless.
 
Apologetics is like anything else. It takes time, study, and effort. You will get better by continuous study. I like to take the difficult to answer issues and write my own personal responses based upon my study. I likewise gain insight from discussions and debates that I have engaged in. Writing these things down reinforces the information and answers. Anytime you get new information, update what you’ve written down. Reading, discussion, and writing things down puts all of your learning senses to work and will help you retain the information much better.

Apologetics demands that you immerse yourself in the material. Not everyone can do that. I personally find it spiritually rewarding. Rather than a burden it becomes a joy. You have to be passionate about it. Apologetics is not for everyone, and it demands a lot of time and study. Prayerful study is the best way to approach it.

God bless.
Excellent Post Pax…👍

Peace
James
 
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