I do not beleive OSAS but I got a ques?

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seetiger33

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It still makes my mind go in circles. At what point will I loose my salvation? In other words how much do I have to sin? And i have to get saved again? I keep myself in check daily and believe somewhat you can loose it. Just want some insite In Christ Chad.
 
From my understanding, “salvation” is referred to in two different ways in scripture. So-called long term salvation is when the gates of heaven are opened to us and the power of sin over ourselves is conquered, by the sacrifice of Jesus and our own baptism (baptism is another subject in itself). The second way to refer to salvation is our own personal judgement as one of those written in the book of life… this judgement is not put over us until we die.

The first type of salvation is a given for all of humanity (once you are baptised, that is). However, the second (personal) salvation, while it can never be taken away from us, is still completely free for us to reject. Only those that deliberately reject what they know to be right up until the end of their life will end up in hell… surprisingly, there are a lot of them.

Without going into all the nitpicking and details, though, the basic thing to remember is to keep living for Christ and doing your very best to follow him and grow spiritually without regard to yourself, and everything else will fall into place. I promise. 👍
 
The majority of Catholics are not worried about it, I just try and stay faithful to Christ. Now that I am born again in Christ, all I have to do is not reject Jesus, have faith working through love.

I can reject Jesus’s love by not seeing it in others and killing someone, by cheating on my wife and choosing my own desires over my marriage. Rejecting Jesus is doing whatever I want and not caring what is God’s will for me.

Even then it also depends on God’s mercy upon me and how repentant am I. If I am repentant and have rejected the sin afterward honestly, I believe I will be saved. If I just sin and don’t even care for confessing my sins then I am pretty much doing my own thing for my own desires without care for my salvation, that is pretty risky.

If I do start to worry, lets say I stray a little, I head over to confession and clean myself right up. It is such a gift just to be able to get it off my chest and get the sin behind me. If I need a little spiritual help, I hit a daily Mass, or just stop by the Church. We have the Chapel open for adoration all the time, but I mostly just hit up daily Mass once in a while, as well as pray with my family. Prayer keeps my mind from dwelling or straying into sin and faithful to Christ.

And I entrust the rest to God’s mercy.

God Bless
Scylla
 
Ok so lets say you do kill someone and cheat on your wife and just get downright bad. Then you go to jail. In jail im asking for Gods forgiveness. He said he would forgive me if i asked. I was sincere and realized how wrong i was but i got a life sentance. I grow in jail and learn about christ . I minister to those in jail about his grace and love. But i cant get baptised cause im in jail. I cant partake communion cause im in jail now what? These are kinds of things i have been asked and im like. WOW Good question.
 
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seetiger33:
Ok so lets say you do kill someone and cheat on your wife and just get downright bad. Then you go to jail. In jail im asking for Gods forgiveness. He said he would forgive me if i asked. I was sincere and realized how wrong i was but i got a life sentance. I grow in jail and learn about christ . I minister to those in jail about his grace and love. But i cant get baptised cause im in jail. I cant partake communion cause im in jail now what? These are kinds of things i have been asked and im like. WOW Good question.
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First of all, there are three types of baptism: The most common kind is baptism by water, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But also there are two other types: the second is baptism by desire. A good example of this is the thief who was crucified next to Christ but was forgiven shortly before death when he sincerely repented. He didn’t get baptized by water, but Jesus knew what was in his heart and could tell that the thief was sincere in his desire to repent even if it was at the last minute. The third, I think, is baptism by blood but that isn’t really important here! 😃

As long as God knows what’s truly in your heart then, baptism by desire will suffice in that situation. God would know that you are doing the best you can with what you have. Also, he always provides a way out of any problem when you have faith. Hope is never lost.

EDIT: I say he “provides a way out of any problem” but I think a more accurate way to put it is that he never gives us more than we can handle. That’s why there is never any reason to despair and lose trust in God’s protection and mercy.
 
If you’re talking about a jail in the US, you would most likely be able to both be baptised and receive communion during your incarceration.

If you are unable to be baptised, but desire it if it were available, the Catholic Church teaches that there is such a thing as baptism by desire ( see CCC 1257) which states:
The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation (Jn 3:5). He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them (Mt 28:19-20; Council of Trent (1547) DS 1618; LG 14; AG 5). Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament (Mk 16:16). The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
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Also, as others have stated on this thread, in the Catholic Church resides the ability as given by Christ, to confess our sins and have them forgiven. This is where we turn when we realize that we have turned our backs to God by way of our own actions, thoughts or those things we have failed to do.

God Bless you as you continue to seek to understand how we understand what Christ taught.

CARose
 
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seetiger33:
It still makes my mind go in circles. At what point will I loose my salvation?
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No, because Christ is stronger than our sins, or death, or the devil. The only way to lose Christ, is to reject him - and the only way to do that, is to sin. Otherwise, you are doomed to eternal salvation.​

In other words how much do I have to sin?
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See above ##And i have to get saved again?## No - because Christ does not drop us; He’s not clumsy, which we are: once He has saved us, that is it. Sorry.​

Salvation has three main stages - Christ’s definitive act of redemption at Calvary - which is unique, past, & unrepeatable - is the foundation & source of it:
  • coming into salvation
  • being saved - which is a lifelong process
  • enjoying the fruits of the salvation which was begun, and then continued - this is why theologians say grace is the seed of glory; for this enjoyment is the life of Heaven.
I keep myself in check daily and believe somewhat you can loose it. Just want some insite In Christ Chad.
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IMHO, one can’t - and I don’t believe there is anything in Catholic teaching that rules out OSAS.​

What we do, can’t affect our salvation - simply because God is the Saviour. This is not in the slightest a justification for abounding in sin, nor can it be: for God is a God Who has revealed that He hates sin. He doesn’t love sin, doesn’t does not think it unimportant, doesn’t overlook it - God loathes, hates, abominates, detests, abhors, each and every sin, of each and every single one of us, with an infinite & perfect & holy hatred. God is, in this sense, a God of hate - where sin is concerned. Because it is unconvertibly opposed to Who God is - sins are not converted, only we who do them can be. Sin is what killed God on the Cross - that is how evil it is: it is God-murderous, Christ-killing. So it certainly can’t be called trivial, slight, unimportant. And those who know these things (which are in the Bible) can see for themselves that OSAS is a very powerful motive for turning from sin and clinging to Christ like a limpet; not for sinning.

God has revealed also that:
  • He is Holy
  • He requires holiness in those who are His
  • He is righteousness
  • He requires righteousness from His people
  • He avenges evil
  • we are to make sure of our salvation, in fear and trembling
  • we are to love Him with our whole heart, mind, might & strength - and our neighbours, as ourselves
  • we are to obey His Will in all things
…and so on. None of this is an inducement to, or excuse for, unholy, unChristian, presumptuous, disobedient certainty that we can sin to our hearts’ content on the plea that He is merciful and gracious - because grace is given so that we might come to repentance, as St.Paul explicitly says. To abuse God’s grace by sinning “so that grace may abound”, is to invite the full weight of “the fury of the wrath of God” upon us. For God hates sinners - not their persons, but their persons insofar as they are united to their sins. ##
 
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seetiger33:
It still makes my mind go in circles. At what point will I loose my salvation?
Click to expand...

No, because Christ is stronger than our sins, or death, or the devil. The only way to lose Christ, is to reject him - and the only way to do that, is to sin. Otherwise, you are doomed to eternal salvation.​

In other words how much do I have to sin?
Click to expand...

See above​

And i have to get saved again?
Click to expand...

No - because Christ does not drop us; He’s not clumsy, which we are: once He has saved us, that is it - having died, we are raised from the dead to newness of life.​

Salvation has three main stages - Christ’s definitive act of redemption at Calvary - which is unique, past, & unrepeatable - is the foundation & source of it:
  • coming into salvation
  • being saved - which is a lifelong process
  • enjoying the fruits of the salvation which was begun, and then continued - this is why theologians say grace is the seed of glory; for this enjoyment is the life of Heaven.
I keep myself in check daily and believe somewhat you can loose it. Just want some insite In Christ Chad.
Click to expand...

IMHO, one can’t - and I don’t believe there is anything in Catholic teaching that rules out OSAS.​

What we do, can’t affect the certainty of our salvation - simply because God is the Saviour. This is not in the slightest a justification for abounding in sin, nor can it be: for God is a God Who has revealed that He hates sin. He doesn’t love sin, doesn’t think it unimportant, doesn’t overlook it - God loathes, hates, abominates, detests, abhors, each and every sin, of each and every single one of us, with an infinite & perfect & holy hatred. God is, in this sense, a God of hate - where sin is concerned. Because it is unconvertibly opposed to Who God is - sins are not converted, only we who do them can be. Sin is what killed God on the Cross - that is how evil it is: it is God-murderous, Christ-killing. So it certainly can’t be called trivial, slight, unimportant. And those who know these things (which are in the Bible) can see for themselves that OSAS is a very powerful motive for turning from sin and clinging to Christ like a limpet; not for sinning.

God has revealed also that:
  • He is Holy
  • He requires holiness in those who are His
  • He is righteous
  • He requires righteousness from His people
  • He avenges evil
  • we are to make sure of our salvation, in fear and trembling
  • we are to love Him with our whole heart, mind, might & strength - and our neighbours, as ourselves
  • we are to obey His Will in all things
…and so on - which are all powerful reasons to seek God, not self or sin. We are not under the Law of Moses - we are under the Law of Christ; which is far harder to fulfil. It’s impossible - which is why we are to obey it; and we do that, by love. It is that simple, and that difficult. If you want to avoid losing Christ, love Him. For love includes everything that we should be & do, whether to God or our neighbours or ourselves.

None of this is an inducement to, or excuse for the assumption that we can sin to our hearts’ content, on the plea that He is merciful and gracious - for grace is given so that we might come to repentance, as St.Paul explicitly says in Romans. To abuse God’s grace by sinning “so that grace may abound”, is to invite the full weight of “the fury of the wrath of God” upon us - for if we despise grace, we will face judgement instead. For God hates sinners - not them as such, but them insofar as they are united to their sins. ##
 
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exoflare:
The third, I think, is baptism by blood but that isn’t really important here! 😃
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You’re right, but I’d like to clarify what this means. Basically it means that if you gave your life for the Truth of Jesus Christ, then you are baptized. This has evidence in Scriptures when St. Stephen was martyred by the Jews and became the first Christian martyr. We don’t see that St. Stephen was baptized by water in Scripture (he may have been) but we are guaranteed that he is in Heaven because he gave his life for Christ.
 
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seetiger33:
At what point will I loose my salvation?
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Men are damned to hell for being unrepentant for committing mortal sin.
In other words how much do I have to sin?
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It isn’t the sin that sends you to Hell, it is the unrepentance for committing mortal sin that sends you to hell.
And i have to get saved again?
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A Christian is saved by validly receiving the Sacrament of Baptism. If we fall from a state of grace after we are baptized, we can avail ourselves of the Sacrament of Confession and restore the eternal life that we have lost. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:8-9
I keep myself in check daily …
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👍

Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.
1Pet 5:8-9
 
Gottle of Geer:
I don’t believe there is anything in Catholic teaching that rules out OSAS.
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You have got to be kidding. :rolleyes:

There are essentially two versions of the OSAS heresy. The man-has-no-free-will-and-I-am-one-of-the-holy-meat-robots-predestined-for-heaven version of OSAS (Calvinism) and the man-has-free-will-but-a-saved-man-can-never-commit-a-sin that-would-lead-to-his-damnation version of OSAS (antinomianism). Both versions of the OSAS heresy are completely irreconcilable with the Gospel of Christ.

OSAS isn’t the gospel, it is the utter destruction of the gospel. :mad: The Catholic Church definitely teaches that a Christian can be damned by dying in a state of unrepentant mortal sin. Never has the Catholic Church taught the pernicious heresy of OSAS.
 
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