I don't believe in divorce, but should I separate?

[marjims]

In reading the words of wisdom you all have offered I found myself over the last few days trying to move more toward a spirit of forgiveness and compassion toward my husband. I really do believe that I don’t have a problem with forgiving, but trying to incorporate that forgiveness with a healthy wariness so I am not blindsided as I have been in the past, is what I am struggling to balance right now. It is my own personal failure, I know, but I have had so much trouble getting past how he could have engaged in such elaborate and numerous lies when I thought we had such a strong spiritual bond, and at a time when I was so dependent and sick through chemotherapy. I was so afraid, and counted on his strength as I battled for my life. I know I am probably feeling sorry for myself, which is a very unflattering and selfish attitude, and I don’t want to be that way at all. Many people suffer more greatly than I, and I can’t seem to reconcile that my husband not only did these things, but at a time of my greatest need. I know I need to and I want to be a better person and wife, and those of you who encourage me to forgive and show charity - thank you - I need to be reminded of that.

I guess I am realizing that I do not want to, nor could I with a clear, Catholic conscience, leave my husband, as he is showing me with tireless devotion his love for me. That is a gift, and maybe I have something to learn from him in that respect.

GerlyOne: I am so happy that you and your husband have begun the reconciliation process by sitting down and discussing the problems. God is surely working in both your lives, as evidenced by your husband’s remorse and both your willingness to talk things through honestly and calmly. I want just as much for you and your husband to renew your married life as God intends, as I hope for myself and my husband! I will continue to pray for you both.

 

[nmoerbeek]

I know some battered women who would disagree with you.

The OP said that she was not sure she could trust him again; putting physical distance would be running away seeing that having her presence be lacking would encourage him to become less emotional connected with her and fall into the occasion of sin again.

That was the context of that statement.

 

[nmoerbeek]

In reading the words of wisdom you all have offered I found myself over the last few days trying to move more toward a spirit of forgiveness and compassion toward my husband. I really do believe that I don’t have a problem with forgiving, but trying to incorporate that forgiveness with a healthy wariness so I am not blindsided as I have been in the past, is what I am struggling to balance right now. It is my own personal failure, I know, but I have had so much trouble getting past how he could have engaged in such elaborate and numerous lies when I thought we had such a strong spiritual bond, and at a time when I was so dependent and sick through chemotherapy. I was so afraid, and counted on his strength as I battled for my life. I know I am probably feeling sorry for myself, which is a very unflattering and selfish attitude, and I don’t want to be that way at all. Many people suffer more greatly than I, and I can’t seem to reconcile that my husband not only did these things, but at a time of my greatest need. I know I need to and I want to be a better person and wife, and those of you who encourage me to forgive and show charity - thank you - I need to be reminded of that.

I guess I am realizing that I do not want to, nor could I with a clear, Catholic conscience, leave my husband, as he is showing me with tireless devotion his love for me. That is a gift, and maybe I have something to learn from him in that respect.

GerlyOne: I am so happy that you and your husband have begun the reconciliation process by sitting down and discussing the problems. God is surely working in both your lives, as evidenced by your husband’s remorse and both your willingness to talk things through honestly and calmly. I want just as much for you and your husband to renew your married life as God intends, as I hope for myself and my husband! I will continue to pray for you both.

God bless you!

 

[Serap]

I know some battered women who would disagree with you.

I was thinking the same thing. Emotional abuse is just as hurtful as physical abuse. I don’t know of any priests that would tell a woman to stay in a marriage with severe abuse.

It takes a lot more courage for a woman to leave than stay…I know this from my own experiences. In my case, the abuser was my father, but it’s not that entirely different.

 

[Serap]

The OP said that she was not sure she could trust him again; putting physical distance would be running away seeing that having her presence be lacking would encourage him to become less emotional connected with her and fall into the occasion of sin again.

That was the context of that statement.

I completely disagree with this! Sometimes it takes extreme courage to temporarily separate from your husband in order to get him to realize the gravity of his lies and abuse.

Sometimes physical distance is the BEST thing for a marriage to recover from a hardship. Distance allows both people to think about what they’ve done to the other person. We as humans take people for granted and sometimes we need a kick in the butt (so to speak).

 

[latinmasslover]

I completely disagree with this! Sometimes it takes extreme courage to temporarily separate from your husband in order to get him to realize the gravity of his lies and abuse.

Sometimes physical distance is the BEST thing for a marriage to recover from a hardship. Distance allows both people to think about what they’ve done to the other person. We as humans take people for granted and sometimes we need a kick in the butt (so to speak).

Isn’t physical distance part of the reason he’s in this mess right now? You’re saying that the best thing for her to abandon her husband because some of his attempts to improve have failed? Are you serious? I hope God doesn’t do that with any of us, you know, abandon us when we try and don’t come out perfect.

 

[EvelynEVF]

There’s a big difference. We can’t hurt God.

In general, when a spouse who has blown it continues to get a free ride, there isn’t much motivation to make change stick.

My husband is mentally ill, and not always very in touch with reality. He considered me a freeloader. When I couldn’t take the abuse anymore, and moved to protect my health and my children, he discovered just how much I had been doing. Essentially everything, except going to work everyday. He had no motivation to change in response to my concerns, because he had a cook, housekeeper, gardener, and nanny all rolled into one.
Reality has come crashing down on him, and I don’t envy anyone who has to face ten years’ worth of natural consequences all at once.

We don’t know a whole lot about the OP’s home life, so I don’t want to overgeneralize, but it could be that her husband feels like he can lie without consequences, or at least not much beyond her being mad at him. I am sure that some of the excitement is because his choice of sin involved lies that are so involved as to make a good movie plot.

I applaud her decision to remain charitable and forgiving, and she will have to be the one to decide whether something more concrete needs to happen, now, or later, or if he lies again, or maybe never.

My chief concern with this thread has been the idea that it is always more virtuous and holy to stay and endure. No way.

 

[GerlyOne]

marjims: First off, I am grateful and elated to hear the news of your appointment on Tuesday, thanks be to GOD, I prayed so hard for you and I just knew your day would be positive, you so deserve it!

Secondly: " I guess I am realizing that I do not want to, nor could I with a clear, Catholic conscience, leave my husband, as he is showing me with tireless devotion his love for me. That is a gift, and maybe I have something to learn from him in that respect."

I couldn’t agree with you more, and as I read this statement from you I thought…WOW…I couldn’t have said it better myself, as this is exactly how I am feeling.

I failed to disclose to you earlier that my husband, through his travels, found companionship with someone overseas as well, our roads are quite parallel…

You and I appear to be very intelligent, sensible, faithful Catholic women. When all is said and done, you and I are the only ones who will be able to discern what the right course of action for our marriages will be, the dynamics of our relationships will play a big part and require much consideration.

I have taken your advice and prayed, diligently, to our LORD, I know he hears me and the proof is in my husband’s actions, words, attitude and behavior towards me. He has been very remorseful, tender, and loving. He told me that I am his heart, his soul, his love, his life and that without me, there is nothing for him. He has asked forgiveness for his lapse in judgement, swore to me that absolutely nothing physical EVER occurred…

Now it is up to me, through much thought and prayer, to figure out if I want to believe him…you have given me courage.

I appreciate the words from the people who have posted on this situation, but at the end of the day, it is only going to be between us and GOD, HE already knows what our choices will be…we just have to keep up our faith and trust in HIM…

GOD bless you and continue to shine HIS light on you, I know everything will turn out for you…

 

[latinmasslover]

There’s a big difference. We can’t hurt God.

Not really. And yes, we can hurt God. Do you believe He’s not saddened at the loss of souls? We *can *hurt Him.

My chief concern with this thread has been the idea that it is always more virtuous and holy to stay and endure. No way.

For the most part, it is more virtuous and holy to persevere and remain faithful. Let’s face it, most people on these threads are less concerned with doing the right thing, prefering “happiness” to truth and obedience to the way God Almighty has called us to live. Typical opinions that will land one in Hell.

 

[whatevergirl]

Not really. And yes, we can hurt God. Do you believe He’s not saddened at the loss of souls? We *can *hurt Him.

For the most part, it is more virtuous and holy to persevere and remain faithful. Let’s face it, most people on these threads are less concerned with doing the right thing, prefering “happiness” to truth and obedience to the way God Almighty has called us to live. Typical opinions that will land one in Hell.

Surely, you are not suggesting that people who have divorced because their spouses were cheating on them, are going to hell?

 

[whatevergirl]

marjims–I admire your loyalty, and determination to make this marriage work…only YOU can decide that. Good luck to you and God bless! You and your husband are in my prayers.

 

[latinmasslover]

Surely, you are not suggesting that people who have divorced because their spouses were cheating on them, are going to hell?

Absolutely not (unless, of course, the “remarry”). I’m referring to the mentality of preferring/advising/etc one or another to sin so that they can “be happy.” Or the mentality that says “Jane Doe was sinned, therefore my sin is justified before God.” Separation is sometimes necessary; if my children were in danger you better believe they’d be with me and we’d be out. This man, however, seems to be trying, and to abandon one’s husband in his time of need is to sin (breaking of the marriage vows: good times and bad). Sorry for the confusion.

 

[EvelynEVF]

What you’re missing is that no one is advising that anyone pick up and walk out on a spouse in order to be happy. Nor have I seen this is any other thread I’ve visited.

In order to preserve health and sanity, yes. Happiness? What use is earthly happiness to me if it would separate me from the Lover of my soul?

In my case, I had to walk away from the abuse so that I could be safe enough to open my heart to God. My marriage was an idol; I was willing to preserve it at all costs and it kept me from pursuing God. Contrary to what you write, I am able to progress more toward holiness now than I was then.

These are really tough situations, and nobody can make that call for any other person. Even after I had the blessing of my priest and spiritual director, I still had to make the decision, and it took a long time to do it. It changed my life when a truly holy person confronted me with the truth that God was calling me out of the abuse, so that He could have that place in my heart.

You are welcome to your opinion, and I appreciate your concern for the state of marriage in general these days. I only ask that you do not paint with so broad a brush.

 

[whatevergirl]

Absolutely not (unless, of course, the “remarry”). I’m referring to the mentality of preferring/advising/etc one or another to sin so that they can “be happy.” Or the mentality that says “Jane Doe was sinned, therefore my sin is justified before God.” Separation is sometimes necessary; if my children were in danger you better believe they’d be with me and we’d be out. This man, however, seems to be trying, and to abandon one’s husband in his time of need is to sin (breaking of the marriage vows: good times and bad). Sorry for the confusion.

Ok, I see where you are coming from, now. I don’t disagree…I will only submit to you, that there are times in a marriage, where the other partner claims to be remorseful, only to keep dragging the spouse and the marriage through the mud further. In this scenario, it seems that the husband is sorry for his behavior. But, even when men/women apologize and try to change, the other spouse might be so hurt, confused, angry, and sad that the marriage ‘environment’ is causing them to feel bad about themselves. So, it might look like someone is walking out on a person who is trying to make amends, but really, the other person has been so hurt, he/she just needs to separate to find him/herself again, and peace of mind.

And none of us know who will end up in hell…only God knows. We can speculate, but I don’t imagine people are going into hell because they suggest to someone to separate, because he/she was being cheated on repeatedly, and lied to.

Thank you for clarifying, hope my stance makes sense, too.

 

[Serap]

Ok, I see where you are coming from, now. I don’t disagree…I will only submit to you, that there are times in a marriage, where the other partner claims to be remorseful, only to keep dragging the spouse and the marriage through the mud further. In this scenario, it seems that the husband is sorry for his behavior. But, even when men/women apologize and try to change, the other spouse might be so hurt, confused, angry, and sad that the marriage ‘environment’ is causing them to feel bad about themselves. So, it might look like someone is walking out on a person who is trying to make amends, but really, the other person has been so hurt, he/she just needs to separate to find him/herself again, and peace of mind.

And none of us know who will end up in hell…only God knows. We can speculate, but I don’t imagine people are going into hell because they suggest to someone to separate, because he/she was being cheated on repeatedly, and lied to.

Thank you for clarifying, hope my stance makes sense, too.

yeah…what she said

Whatevergirl, you have a way of wording things that make so much sense!

 

[Lifeisamazing]

Marjims-

I just want to say that considering seperation is not a sin. It may be an appropriate consequence for his repeated failures that may bring him to realize your marriage deserves better and he is in need of growth in certain areas.

As long as, in one’s heart, seperation is used as a tool to re-strengthen the marriage, clear the heart and mind, and to build a wall to keep the bad out but open a window to let the good in, well, one is doing exactly what God intended for husband and wife----Grace + Responsibility= Love.
Grace + No responsibility = Codependence/Enabling. (None of this applies if one is being physically abused or verbally assaulted, but it does not sound like that is your issue.)

While he hopefully considers growth in his failed areas, you will have solitude & peace to repair and strengthen yourself and consider areas where you could use some growth, too.

Husband and wife should be ultra responsible for each other’s individual souls and spiritual growth & closeness with God above all. At the end of the journey, we are only partners who promised to get each other to the pinnacle of grace. Sometimes, that means lovingly telling the other that they are faltering despite your verbal efforts and it is now time for responsibility and consequence in the interest of returning to one another whole and cleansed. This is sometimes done via seperation.

Please understand, I am not saying you should seperate, but I believe there are cases where it benefits the marriage. Also, I am not using “seperation” in the legal sense, but merely the physical sense where a husband may either sleep in a seperate room of the house with clear rules established or live elsewhere for the time being.

I pray you find a local priest or catholic counselor that does speak better English to help you face to face. Your situation sounds repairable with some hard work and sacrifice, and what a wonderful thing that would be.

 

[marjims]

Lifeisamazing -

You have said some very profound things that echo thoughts I have had and wondered about for a long time. I am most concerned about being that instrument of God’s grace in helping my husband toward Heaven in my marriage, and desperately hope for my husband’s help for me in that same regard.

What you said made me stop and think: how have I contributed to his continued dishonesty toward me? You see, what I didn’t mention in previous posts is that this dishonesty showed itself in other, serious - albeit not through affairs - instances in our marriage. At those times, my husband acknowledged what he had done was wrong, and tried very hard to make amends and earn trust back. I always forgave him, realizing that I, too, had areas in which I should work harder to improve. I looked at our life as a whole and knew him to be an outstanding father, hard-working provider, loving towards me, and a man who didn’t want to be this way, this way of life that was deceitful. Admittedly, these times were not frequent, but they were of a serious nature, and this speaks to his inability to respect me as a man should a wife. I have tried to be an open book to him, thinking he would see that as an invitation to drop all barriers, but apparently he chose differently. The thought that I could have helped him long ago by holding him to higher standards of behavior haunt me now.

I am not abdicating my previous position on wanting to stay with my husband, only contemplating what my personal responsibility is in this situation remaining static. Am I helping him toward the goal of Heaven by not lovingly holding him accountable “enough?” Would a physical separation, for a time, help him to more clearly see all that is at stake? He absolutely does not want this.

I don’t want to issue ultimatums, and the thought of a separation feels like the most profound failure of my life, my husband’s life. He is attending counseling, sporadically, as his travel permits, and I feel I should support him in his efforts - but you have also given me something to consider, something that could possibly be the most loving thing to do.

 

[Lifeisamazing]

Lifeisamazing -

You have said some very profound things that echo thoughts I have had and wondered about for a long time. I am most concerned about being that instrument of God’s grace in helping my husband toward Heaven in my marriage, and desperately hope for my husband’s help for me in that same regard.

What you said made me stop and think: how have I contributed to his continued dishonesty toward me? You see, what I didn’t mention in previous posts is that this dishonesty showed itself in other, serious - albeit not through affairs - instances in our marriage. At those times, my husband acknowledged what he had done was wrong, and tried very hard to make amends and earn trust back. I always forgave him, realizing that I, too, had areas in which I should work harder to improve. I looked at our life as a whole and knew him to be an outstanding father, hard-working provider, loving towards me, and a man who didn’t want to be this way, this way of life that was deceitful. Admittedly, these times were not frequent, but they were of a serious nature, and this speaks to his inability to respect me as a man should a wife. I have tried to be an open book to him, thinking he would see that as an invitation to drop all barriers, but apparently he chose differently. The thought that I could have helped him long ago by holding him to higher standards of behavior haunt me now.

I am not abdicating my previous position on wanting to stay with my husband, only contemplating what my personal responsibility is in this situation remaining static. Am I helping him toward the goal of Heaven by not lovingly holding him accountable “enough?” Would a physical separation, for a time, help him to more clearly see all that is at stake? He absolutely does not want this.

I don’t want to issue ultimatums, and the thought of a separation feels like the most profound failure of my life, my husband’s life. He is attending counseling, sporadically, as his travel permits, and I feel I should support him in his efforts - but you have also given me something to consider, something that could possibly be the most loving thing to do.

It is pretty impossible in a relationship to say that he is 100% the problem. Sometimes, we help to nourish the problem in passive ways without realizing we are being irresponsible.

I do not look at it as holding someone “accountable”. I see it as you would be loving your soul’s right towards grace, in that, you communicate that you will not short change your union (and what it could be!) by merely being the recipient of his poor choices. You are actually holding yourself accountable to a higher purpose of peacefulness, love, freedom, and joy. One can then “remove” oneself from the other, and give the spouse a choice to join them in a healthier & stronger version of the marriage or continue down the same old path.

Ultimatums don’t work when you apply them to others. You would be making an ultimatum on yourself and merely communicating it. We are not able to force accountability on others-- you can try-- but free will and what is in one’s heart is not touchable by the outside world without permission.

Just as a parent can contribute to the deliquency of a child by not setting boundaries, fixing consequences so the child is protected from them, and giving too much love and grace in the absence of responsibility and discipline— so can a spouse do the same with their mate. That is a failure in and of itself that many do not realize. That is not Love. Love as God intended must be accompanied by responsibility to one another.

Big changes can come when we focus on our own failures and begin anew! You seem to be moving in a good direction to accomplish so much more to make your marriage wonderful again.