I don't get it...if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren't you a Catholic Christian? - Two

[Jimmy_B]

http://z.about.com/d/catholicism/1/0/m/1/-/-/Pope_Benedict_Benediction.jpg

I don’t get it…if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic Christian?** *- ***Two

(thread killed after 1200+ posts. Original thread here.)

I don’t get it…if you are a non-Catholic Christian, then why aren’t you a Catholic Christian?

This is a serious question, so please post your reason here… Please, don’t be afraid to voice your opinion and to defend your own particular denomination.
I am not the only Catholic here at CAF, or elsewhere, which wonders and wants to know the answer to this question.

If any Catholics, or any converts to Catholicism here, have any insight to the answer, or possible answer(s) to this question, then please post a response here.

Your thoughts?

 

[CoreyE]

Hello. The difference is DOCTRINE.

A non Catholic Christian believes different things to a Catholic.
The differences are very significant. For example:

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don’t make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.

I John
1:7b …the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
…believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner…pray ye: Our Father… forgive us…

1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, …And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, “Stand up; I myself also am a man.” (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

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These are some of the doctrineal differences between Catholic and non Catholic Christians. They are very significant differences and will determine if you are a true Christian or not. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and Him alone. The Apostle John said “he who has the Son has life”. Forgiveness of sins is in Jesus Christ alone and no one else.

I think it is very clear that the Catholic church has got the wrong doctrines.

 

[Poco]

Interesting question! As I have begun my “attempt to cross the Tiber” I ask myself the same question. The easy answer, I guess, would be part of the G.K. Chesterton quote I use in my signature, “It has been found difficult and left untried”.

In truth, it is probably a bit more complicated than that, as the response by CoreyE demonstrates.

CoreyE is correct that doctrine is a big part, but I have to wonder if he/she has the faintest clue from whence we got the Bible? Are you aware the Church gave us the Bible and not the other way around?

God bless!

 

[greggy53]

Hello. The difference is DOCTRINE.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them. .

Supposedly?. That is not what the Bible says. you are just being selective in what you choose to believe the Bible says and what you want to ignore.

John 6, 54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.

55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.

1st Cor 10, 16 The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?

Mat 26 And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. 27 And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.

I could go on, but you probably know the scriptures, you just need to accept them.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don’t make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that. .

The Bible says this too.
James 2, 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Yes works does play a role in salvation. We see this when we take what scritpure teaches in whole, and not just in bits and pieces.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone. .

The Bible also says this:

John 20,21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Yes, God forgives our sins, but he gave the authority to forgive or retain sins to the disciples, the leaders of his Church and nowhere in scripture does it say that it ended with them. that leads us to your next claim:

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, “Stand up; I myself also am a man.” (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship. .

Yes St Peter was a man like us, but Jesus gave him and the disciples that authority. I know Protestants don’t like it, don’t want to accept the authority that God gave to his Church, but there it is.

Mat 16, Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

I think it is very clear that the Catholic church has got the wrong doctrines.

Please note the words “whatsoever” that means anything. When you rebel against God’s Church by denying the authority he gave to it you rebel against God. And that is very clear indeed.

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[JonNC]

=CoreyE;6659880]Hello. The difference is DOCTRINE.

A non Catholic Christian believes different things to a Catholic.
The differences are very significant. For example:

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

So, Corey, was I wrong to call my dad, Father?

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

I’ll let Catholics here defend the re-presentation of the once-for-all sacrifice, but there is nothing “supposed” about the actual body and blood in the Eucharist.

1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus)./

Is is is.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner…pray ye: Our Father… forgive us…

1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, …And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

these are clearly two separate issues, and I don’t know why you’ve linked them. Of confession/Holy Absolution, this has been the historic teaching of the Church, as exercising the power of the Church to bind and loose. Absolutely scriptural, which is why Lutherans retained the practice.

While I don’t necessarily agree with invocation of the saints and the BLessed Virgin, to characterize Catholic belief in the way you have is, in my understanding, incorrect. Invocation of saints is no more like a prayer to God, than our requests to others that they pray for us. It is called requests for intercession. You’re use of 12 Timothy in this way is misleading.

I think it is very clear that the Catholic church has got the wrong doctrines.

Well, in a few of these, I side with the Catholics.

Jon

 

[1SeekingChrist]

Very interesting topic. And as a recent convert (was received into the church just this Easter) I think I have a fairly recent perspective on why I was NOT Catholic. This is from my experience, so I’m sure many others have different reasons. But these are mine.

In all honesty, the big reason I was not a Catholic was a lack of understanding; incorrect education. I was born and raised a more or less bread and butter evangelical and I was simply told that the Catholic Church was bad, that Catholics aren’t Christians (or at least not all. There was some leniency in that.) If any reasons were given it was because Catholics “Worship Mary and that Saints” or are idolaters or they never prayed and “got saved.” Accusations of idolatry were the most common.

Then, when I would get more curious I’d see accusations of pagan practices (Christmas and Easter are favorites). Others would point at the Catholic Church’s involvement in world politics and say that the church shouldn’t be so political, there should be a separation. Archaic arguments about the selling of indulgences or paying for souls to be freed from purgatory later came up. Eventually, the claims of the great harlot of Babylon being the Catholic church, with all that false evidence piled up seemed irrevocably true.

Through the influence of some Catholic friends I got curious about what the Catholic Church REALLY said or did. I fully expected to find out that the Catholic Church was really as abhorrent as I was told and that the knowledge I gained from the proverbial horses mouth would be ammunition against those friends to evangelize them and “make sure they got saved!” What I found, after serious study, was, obviously, the exact opposite. I am now Catholic. All the arguments in the above post(s) I ran into and all of them were found to be either untrue or so unequivocally biblical and true to the faith that I was turned. I would encourage any protestant who wants to know why the Catholic Church is “so bad” and is the largest “denomination” (for lack of a better word) in Christianity to begin to read some Catholic apologists and theologians, so they have some real insight into why they are NOT Catholic. Then put all of that up against the Bible and find out. Try Scott Hahn, Dave Armstrong, Mark Shea, G.K. Chesterton, Fr. John Hardon, Archbishop Fulton Sheen or even Pope John Paul II (the Great) and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now obviously Pope Benedict XVI). Find out why YOU aren’t Catholic!

Oh… and beware people praying for you… they get ya every time!

 

[Arismal]

I know one of the big reasons the Orthodox eastern church split from the Catholic western church is the eastern belief in the Pentarchy, the five senior churches/Bishops leading in concert and being equal in seniority. Those five being Rome, Constantinople, Carthage, Antioch and Alexandria

However the Bishop of Rome claimed his church was superior due to it being founded by St Peter and after the Muslim conquests of the 7th century only the Bishops of Rome and Constantiople were still within Christian rule, so you had Rome and the Pope arguing for it supermecy and the Patriartch of Constantinople arguing for the Pentarchy, albeit one that existed in name only

 

[Church_Militant]

Hello. The difference is DOCTRINE.

A non Catholic Christian believes different things to a Catholic.
The differences are very significant. For example:

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Really? The fact is that this is very much a scriptural practice, as laid out in Call No Man Father?

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.
Hebrews 10:12 -18
John 19:30
1 Corinthians 11:24-26

Nice a-C rhetoric…notice here folks that Corey conveniently ignores the rest of the New Testament context on the Eucharist, (which can be found here. The Eucharist IS Scriptural) most notably the rest of the passage he uses in 1st Corinthians 11, which clearly says,
27] Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
30] That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

If, as so many try to assert, this was merely symbolic, it would be nonsense since one can abuse a symbol of a person all day long and never become guilty of their body and blood.

Also note that Corey misrepresents the Catholic doctrine because we have never believed the Eucharist to be a re-sacrifice of Christ, but a re-presentation of that same, one and only sacrifice on Golgotha.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don’t make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.

I John 1:7b …the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b …believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Romans 3:24-28

Again, Corey shows us that he has been taught, (or chosen to) ignore the rest of the New Testament teaching on salvation which clearly tells us that our works play a part in whether we are saved or not. Matthew 25:31-46 is the most glaring such omission, but there is also James 1;19-27 and 2:12-26 and Matthew 18:21-35. (Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”? )

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner…pray ye: Our Father… forgive us…

Here Corey tries to misled people by completely ignoring the direct teaching of Christ in the Gospel as if John 20:21-23 did not exist. The following articles from my blog will refute his case. Catholic Confession “I Find No Sacraments In the Bible” he said. and Scriptures About Penance

An often quoted passage among n-Cs is 1st John 1:9, but the generally fail to include James 5:14-16 which helps clarify the teachings on confession.

Petitioning saints and Mary.
1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, …And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

The Intercession & Communion of Saints No Catholic has any problem with the scriptures that Corey quoted, we just disagree with his modern new wind of interpretations of men.

In fact, isn’t every prayer we offer for another’s intentions an intercession and inter-mediation between God and the person we are praying for? Yet the New Testament teaches that we should do this.
(Cont’d)

 

[Church_Militant]

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church.

Gee Corey, why don’t you actually look to see what we teach before trying to oppose it.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Peter the Rock

**The Church - instituted by Christ Jesus **
763 It was the Son’s task to accomplish the Father’s plan of salvation in the fullness of time. Its accomplishment was the reason for his being sent.160 "The Lord Jesus inaugurated his Church by preaching the Good News, that is, the coming of the Reign of God, promised over the ages in the scriptures."161 To fulfill the Father’s will, Christ ushered in the Kingdom of heaven on earth. The Church "is the Reign of Christ already present in mystery."162
764 "This Kingdom shines out before men in the word, in the works and in the presence of Christ."163 To welcome Jesus’ word is to welcome "the Kingdom itself."164165 They form Jesus’ true family.166 To those whom he thus gathered around him, he taught a new “way of acting” and a prayer of their own.167 The seed and beginning of the Kingdom are the “little flock” of those whom Jesus came to gather around him, the flock whose shepherd he is.
765 The Lord Jesus endowed his community with a structure that will remain until the Kingdom is fully achieved. Before all else there is the choice of the Twelve with Peter as their head.168 Representing the twelve tribes of Israel, they are the foundation stones of the new Jerusalem.169 The Twelve and the other disciples share in Christ’s mission and his power, but also in his lot.170 By all his actions, Christ prepares and builds his Church.
766 The Church is born primarily of Christ’s total self-giving for our salvation, anticipated in the institution of the Eucharist and fulfilled on the cross. "The origin and growth of the Church are symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of the crucified Jesus."171 "For it was from the side of Christ as he slept the sleep of death upon the cross that there came forth the ‘wondrous sacrament of the whole Church.’"172 As Eve was formed from the sleeping Adam’s side, so the Church was born from the pierced heart of Christ hanging dead on the cross.173

Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying.

So the you are telling us that St. Peter, the chief of the apostles was Satan? Of course not! Nor was that what Our Lord was even implying. So Peter was a man…so what? So were all the apostles and every believer since. Peter ws right up front with Our Lord about himself. “Which when Simon Peter saw, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying: Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord.” (Luke 5:8)

Here again you choose to ignore the very precise words of Our Lord to Peter in Matthew 16:15-19 and don’t waste time on that Greek word study apologetic because it is wrong. Jesus and the apostles spoke Aramaic and Peter was not called Peter, but Cephas. The Aramaic doesn’t have the gender problems that the Greek does, so the actual meaning is clear as is the context of the passage of Mathew 16:15-19.

When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, “Stand up; I myself also am a man.” (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

So then everyone who bows to another person, like they do in the Orient, and many other places is worshiping that person? That’s ridiculous! Moreover, there is no teaching of any kind in the Catholic faith that even implies such a ludicrous thing and I defy you to provide any authentic Catholic document to prove it. You can’t because no such hogwash exists.
(Cont’d)

 

[Church_Militant]

These are some of the doctrineal differences between Catholic and non Catholic Christians. They are very significant differences and will determine if you are a true Christian or not. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and Him alone. The Apostle John said “he who has the Son has life”. Forgiveness of sins is in Jesus Christ alone and no one else.

Unfortunately for you Corey, you have been misled and deceived by people who have taught you half truths and errant doctrines that not only contradict the Word of God, but can be shown to have never been taught by Christians for the first 1500 years of Church history. My Testimony

The Catholic Church has always taught and proclaimed that “Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and Him alone.” and your a-C propaganda is actually the errant new winds of doctrines of modern men from the last 500 years.

I think it is very clear that the Catholic church has got the wrong doctrines.

I think you have made yourself the willing student of men who have distorted the Word of God and taught you a different gospel.

What does the Word of God say about that?

James 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.

2nd Timothy 2:15 Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

 

[jlhargus]

Hello. The difference is DOCTRINE.

A non Catholic Christian believes different things to a Catholic.
The differences are very significant. For example:

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.

Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don’t make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.

I John
1:7b …the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
…believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.

I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner…pray ye: Our Father… forgive us…

1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope];

I John 2:1, …And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.

WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, “Stand up; I myself also am a man.” (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.

1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

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These are some of the doctrineal differences between Catholic and non Catholic Christians. They are very significant differences and will determine if you are a true Christian or not. Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and Him alone. The Apostle John said “he who has the Son has life”. Forgiveness of sins is in Jesus Christ alone and no one else.

I think it is very clear that the Catholic church has got the wrong doctrines.

JL: I was a non-denominational bible church convert and believed the above misinformed, out of scriptural context understanding. Then I learned what the Catholic Church really taught and the scripture reasons for those teachings. I think CoreyE’s post is a perfect example of why other Christians do not become Catholic, they are misinformed.

 

[tweetymom]

Unfortunately for you Corey, you have been misled and deceived by people who have taught you half truths and errant doctrines that not only contradict the Word of God, but can be shown to have never been taught by Christians for the first 1500 years of Church history. My Testimony

The Catholic Church has always taught and proclaimed that “Salvation comes through Jesus Christ and Him alone.” and your a-C propaganda is actually the errant new winds of doctrines of modern men from the last 500 years.I think you have made yourself the willing student of men who have distorted the Word of God and taught you a different gospel.

What does the Word of God say about that?

James 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.

2nd Timothy 2:15 Carefully study to present thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Read your testiminy, and it was great. I have had the opposite happen to me. I was raised partly Catholic, went away and went to the Baptist Church and then Pentecostal. Was very happy in the Lord. Then 10 years ago met present hubby who was Catholic, went back to CC and went thru all to be confirmed and we married in CC. I am very happy with new marriage and in the Lord, but not happy going to CC.

I do not and canot swallow all that I find to be taight in CC. So I do have a problem. Still wish I went to Pentecostal Church. But like I said I am Happy in the Lord and so I just worship Him in my way at Church.

 

[MariaG]

I believe I was very fortunate to be a revert/convert. Baptized into the Faith as an infant, but did not attend church after age 4, I believe the Holy Spirit really protected and guided me.

So whenever some of the twisted lies that are close but just not true, like those already posted and sadly believed by the poster in this thread, the Holy Spirit would rise up and I would just wonder, really? Is that true?

But for most, you have to understand that you are talking to people whom you believe their interpretation of scripture. Why would they lie? They are seemingly Godly people who are just trying to lead people to Christ.

I finally got tired of people saying things about the Catholic Church, things that would mean they were not Christian, and started to read about the teachings of the Catholic Church from the Catholic Church.

Not what Pastor Bob from the Baptist Church says, not what Angela who was “raised Catholic” says, and not even what this really big website and well known Christian group says about the Catholic Church, but what the Catholic Church says and teaches from the Catholic Church.

I really think the biggest reason is that they have swallowed the biggest lie of Satan that Catholics are not Christians. If what they believed about the Catholic Church were true, we wouldn’t be Christians. But what they believe and what we actually teach, are quite different.

Now, are some Christians, usually Sacramental Christians, that are not Catholic for different reasons. But I am not sure I fully understand those reasons and just thank God that for me, it was breaking through all the obvious lies and finding the truth and that made it easy to come to/back to the Catholic Church.

 

[FantomScholar]

Hey Jimmy,

You posted a few questions for me on the other thread. Sorry, I didn’t get to those before the thread was closed by the moderators. So I’d like to answer them for you here.

In your opinion, did the New Covenant throw out all of the old rules? Which ones do we keep, the Ten Commandments, the Sacraments…?

The New Covenant abolished the entirety of the Mosaic Covenant, which includes the Ten Commandments. In principle, however, Christ does bring 9 of the 10 (excluding the Sabbath) into the New Covenant, but they are given a different understanding by Him and the apostles. An example would be, the commandment against murder is heightened by Christ to include hating one’s brother.

As a Catholic, I believe in the New Covenant in Christ but we also believe that "Jesus did not come to abolish the law or the prophets. He (Jesus) come to fulfill those things…

What Jesus is saying there, Jimmy, is “Do not think that I have come to do away with Old Testament revelation, I have come to fulfill (prophetically) Old Testament revelation (i.e., Genesis to Malachi).”

What it does NOT mean is “I have come not to abolish the Mosaic Covenant, but to keep it in place.”

Can you please define these differences and explain why you chose your beliefs and how the “old Law” is defined, or talked about, or applied in your faith and how your beliefs might be different on this subject, than those in another denomination?

When I use the term “old law” I am referring exclusively to the Mosaic Covenant from Ex. 20 to the end of Deut. Of course, I accept that the Old Testament (Gen.-Mal.) is still the word of God and is useful for teaching. So, no, I don’t “do away” with the OT. What I do away with is the Mosaic Covenant, which is replaced by the New Covenant.

The first covenant recorded in Scripture was the Noahic covenant (Genesis 9:1-17). We are still under the Noahic covenant and will be until the second coming. The Noahic covenant is God’s promise that the earth will be here until the second coming and the end of redemptive history. The earth is the stage on which redemptive history is being played out and until redemptive history draws to a close, the stage will always be there. God’s covenant with Noah promises us that.

The second covenant recorded in Scripture is the covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3, et al). The Abrahamic Covenant is God’s promise to create a people, save them from slavery, and bring them into a land. This covenant is physically fulfilled with Joshua’s conquest of Canaan; it is spiritually fulfilled in the New Covenant.

The next covenant given in Scripture is the covenant made with the ancient nation of Israel on Mount Sinai near the beginning of the exodus from Egypt (Exodus 19). This covenant was made only with the nation of Israel, Abraham’s physical descendants through his promised son, Isaac (Exodus 19:5). In the New Testament, this covenant with Israel is called “Moses”, the “First Covenant”, and the “Old Covenant.” In addition to its historical beginning in Exodus 19, this covenant had an historical end with the beginning of the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:13).

The next covenant mentioned in Scripture is the Davidic covenant – the covenant made with King David during the period of the kings in ancient Israel’s history. This covenant was God’s promise to David that he would have a son on the throne after him and that son would reign perpetually in an everlasting kingdom. This covenant finds its ultimate fulfillment in the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ to his heavenly throne at the right hand of the Father (Acts 2:22-36).

The New Covenant is the last covenant mentioned in Scripture and it is the covenant that we are currently under. The New Covenant is the cross work of Christ, securing the perfect payment for sin for all of God’s elect, the church (1 Corinthians 11:25-26). The historical beginning of the New Covenant corresponded with the outpouring of the Spirit and the beginning of the church (which we celebrate tomorrow!) in Acts chapter two.

 

[FantomScholar]

Can you please define these differences and explain why you chose your beliefs and how the “old Law” is defined, or talked about, or applied in your faith and how your beliefs might be different on this subject, than those in another denomination?

The epitome of New Covenant law is the Sermon on the Mount. In this action, Jesus is replacing and being made superior to the Mosaic Covenant given on the other mountain, Sinai. Here, Jesus is the new Moses that Moses pointed to. Note that in the Sermon, Jesus doesn’t just simply restate the Ten Commandments. In addition, he flatly contradicts the Mosaic Covenant in several areas (“you have heard it said, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but I say unto you…”). Also, Jesus covers and gives commandments for topics that the Mosaic Covenant never even addressed, such as judging, prayer, etc. All other New Testament teaching flows from an expands on the Sermon.

The sign of the Mosaic Covenant was the Sabbath. The sign of the New Covenant is the Lord’s Supper.

The sign of the Abrahamic Covenant was circumcision. This physical sign demonstrated ones incorporation into the physical people of Israel. Regeneration is the spiritual fufillment of this sign and incorporates one into God’s spiritual people, the Church. It is demonstrated by Baptism.

 

[Church_Militant]

Read your testiminy, and it was great. I have had the opposite happen to me. I was raised partly Catholic, went away and went to the Baptist Church and then Pentecostal. Was very happy in the Lord. Then 10 years ago met present hubby who was Catholic, went back to CC and went thru all to be confirmed and we married in CC. I am very happy with new marriage and in the Lord, but not happy going to CC.

I do not and canot swallow all that I find to be taight in CC. So I do have a problem. Still wish I went to Pentecostal Church. But like I said I am Happy in the Lord and so I just worship Him in my way at Church.

Perhaps we should discuss that in PMs Tweety. Maybe I can share some things that will help you on your journey of faith.

Thanks for the compliment on my testimony. I am an unworthy servant. I have only done what was expected of me. (Luke 17:10)

 

[Jimmy_B]

Really? The fact is that this is very much a scriptural practice, as laid out in Call No Man Father?
Nice a-C rhetoric…notice here folks that Corey conveniently ignores the rest of the New Testament context on the Eucharist, (which can be found here. The Eucharist IS Scriptural) most notably the rest of the passage he uses in 1st Corinthians 11, which clearly says,
27] Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.
30] That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.

If, as so many try to assert, this was merely symbolic, it would be nonsense since one can abuse a symbol of a person all day long and never become guilty of their body and blood.

Also note that Corey misrepresents the Catholic doctrine because we have never believed the Eucharist to be a re-sacrifice of Christ, but a re-presentation of that same, one and only sacrifice on Golgotha.
Again, Corey shows us that he has been taught, (or chosen to) ignore the rest of the New Testament teaching on salvation which clearly tells us that our works play a part in whether we are saved or not. Matthew 25:31-46 is the most glaring such omission, but there is also James 1;19-27 and 2:12-26 and Matthew 18:21-35. (Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”? )
Here Corey tries to misled people by completely ignoring the direct teaching of Christ in the Gospel as if John 20:21-23 did not exist. The following articles from my blog will refute his case. Catholic Confession “I Find No Sacraments In the Bible” he said. and Scriptures About Penance

An often quoted passage among n-Cs is 1st John 1:9, but the generally fail to include James 5:14-16 which helps clarify the teachings on confession.
The Intercession & Communion of Saints No Catholic has any problem with the scriptures that Corey quoted, we just disagree with his modern new wind of interpretations of men.

In fact, isn’t every prayer we offer for another’s intentions an intercession and inter-mediation between God and the person we are praying for? Yet the New Testament teaches that we should do this.
(Cont’d)

 

[Jimmy_B]

Gee Corey, why don’t you actually look to see what we teach before trying to oppose it.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Peter the Rock
So the you are telling us that St. Peter, the chief of the apostles was Satan? Of course not! Nor was that what Our Lord was even implying. So Peter was a man…so what? So were all the apostles and every believer since. Peter ws right up front with Our Lord about himself. “Which when Simon Peter saw, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying: Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord.” (Luke 5:8)

Here again you choose to ignore the very precise words of Our Lord to Peter in Matthew 16:15-19 and don’t waste time on that Greek word study apologetic because it is wrong. Jesus and the apostles spoke Aramaic and Peter was not called Peter, but Cephas. The Aramaic doesn’t have the gender problems that the Greek does, so the actual meaning is clear as is the context of the passage of Mathew 16:15-19.So then everyone who bows to another person, like they do in the Orient, and many other places is worshiping that person? That’s ridiculous! Moreover, there is no teaching of any kind in the Catholic faith that even implies such a ludicrous thing and I defy you to provide any authentic Catholic document to prove it. You can’t because no such hogwash exists.
(Cont’d)