I don't remember what it's like not to be catholic

[NathanCarson]

I’ve only been catholic for a year now, but I honestly am forgetting what it’s like to be on the other side of that never ending conversation. You know the one I’m talking about. The dialogue of faith.

I try my best to live my faith rather than use my words, but sometimes I must discuss. Like Paul (and many others) the Holy Spirit compels me. I just can’t not talk about it.

I find, however, that usually ends up with me having to humble myself. Which I think is very important, but where does humility end and preaching the gospel begin. Before I was catholic, even before I was christian, people were very open to what I had to say. They would always build with me and share in good discussions. That is if the discussions were started, unfortunately they were hard to find. Most people find examing such things, especially self-examination, hard to take.

I greatly looked forward to when the next discussion would take place. Give and take of what we could both share. I am confused as to why this is so hard among the christian community. The second a non-catholic realizes I’m catholic (whether they consider me a brother in Christ or not) they instantly shut their minds. They get very defensive. As if I’m attacking them. I remember feeling this way when people would speak about Jesus to me but I really don’t believe I am doing quite the same thing. Catholics didn’t usually preach to me. It was usually protestants who didn’t fully understand the gospel, and it was the truth of the bible I was searching for which offended me so much. Aside from my definite guilt/sin.

Tonight I simply tried to discuss a bible story with a new friend of mine and she instantly jumped in a defensive stance explaining her faith. Feeling it necessary to address things I hadn’t even begun to accuse her of. I was not even able to speak. I had to just sit there and listen to her. Which made her even more uneasy.

I used to preach to people and they would really just be stuck there listening to me, it was strange. They would stare back at me with hatred yet when I confronted them with what I was seeing they acted as if they were unaware. I preached to this man once for so long he got real paranoid. He said he felt like he was stoned on marijuana. He took off.

I think I can answer my own question now. As it’s already been answered.

“fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom”

anyway, what do others think about this?

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

NathanCarson:

I’ve only been catholic for a year now, but I honestly am forgetting what it’s like to be on the other side of that never ending conversation. You know the one I’m talking about. The dialogue of faith.

I try my best to live my faith rather than use my words, but sometimes I must discuss. Like Paul (and many others) the Holy Spirit compels me. I just can’t not talk about it.

I find, however, that usually ends up with me having to humble myself. Which I think is very important, but where does humility end and preaching the gospel begin. Before I was catholic, even before I was christian, people were very open to what I had to say. They would always build with me and share in good discussions. That is if the discussions were started, unfortunately they were hard to find. Most people find examing such things, especially self-examination, hard to take.

I greatly looked forward to when the next discussion would take place. Give and take of what we could both share. I am confused as to why this is so hard among the christian community. The second a non-catholic realizes I’m catholic (whether they consider me a brother in Christ or not) they instantly shut their minds. They get very defensive. As if I’m attacking them. I remember feeling this way when people would speak about Jesus to me but I really don’t believe I am doing quite the same thing. Catholics didn’t usually preach to me. It was usually protestants who didn’t fully understand the gospel, and it was the truth of the bible I was searching for which offended me so much. Aside from my definite guilt/sin.

Tonight I simply tried to discuss a bible story with a new friend of mine and she instantly jumped in a defensive stance explaining her faith. Feeling it necessary to address things I hadn’t even begun to accuse her of. I was not even able to speak. I had to just sit there and listen to her. Which made her even more uneasy.

I used to preach to people and they would really just be stuck there listening to me, it was strange. They would stare back at me with hatred yet when I confronted them with what I was seeing they acted as if they were unaware. I preached to this man once for so long he got real paranoid. He said he felt like he was stoned on marijuana. He took off.

I think I can answer my own question now. As it’s already been answered.

“fear of the Lord is the beginning of all wisdom”

anyway, what do others think about this?

Hi,
I don’t know you and can’t really advise you on your preaching. But I can offer a few points.

1. The advice of an old mystic who had spent his life trying to change all the people around him wass that now hiss life is ending he realised he should have been trying to change himself.
2. Friendship, prayer and sacrifices must precede apostolate and preaching.
3. It’s much easier to convert a good friend. Make friends with them first.
   4.When you preach try to make it very natural. Try to preach without anyone knowing your preaching.
4. The price of a soul is very high. Be patient.
   6.In general try to preach with your life. The power of example is the most powerful sermon.
   Hope this is useful to you.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Nathan,

How difficult it is to know oneself and the true motives that lie hidden within our consciousness! There is a rather common temptation, born of our deep love of the Lord and His holy Words, to want to preach/teach others and share the good news that means so much to us. So often hidden from one’s discernment is the fact that sometimes it is our own spiritual gluttony which prompts us to share, so as to experience the deep joy and satisfaction of talking about our faith.

Very often though, the Lord would have us be quiet until we are certain of His interior anointing and that the timing is right and the person to whom we witness is open to our sharing. I do not see this in some of your examples, based on the lack of fruitfulness in your recipients. We can become sounding cymbals that move people farther from truth, unless the Lord has sent us.

Since you know the scriptures, can you recall the incident when Phillip was brought by the Holy Spirit to the eunuch in the carriage? The result? Baptism! The eunuch was *seeking! *The Lord knew his desire and sent Phillip to help him.

The gospel’s closing words for Christmas day might be a good point to remember, "But to as many as received Him, He gave the power of becoming sons of God to those who believe in His name: Who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Sometimes it can be the will of man that tries to evangelize, and we see that this is not where the power is manifested, of becoming a son of God — it is only when our preaching is born of God, who sends us forth in His name, and will back us up by working in the hearer’s heart through His Spirit.

If we are truly detached in what we share, we can leave our words in God’s hands when we are confident that He sent us to speak. Our hearts will rest in the fact that we are “unprofitable servants” and will cause us little anxiety. When we become anxious that our words are not heard, it is a good sign that it is the will of man at work.

May God enlighten all who feel impelled to witness the good news and help us to know His timing.

God’s peace and joy,
Carole

 

[NathanCarson]

to John Russel Jr.:

1. The advice of an old mystic who had spent his life trying to >change all the people around him wass that now hiss life is >ending he realised he should have been trying to change himself.

I am not one of those who spends all his time trying to change others. I try to go to mass as often as possible and spread the love that I feel with others. I am loved in return, so it must be working. When people praise me though, I always tend to point them in the direction of God. Cause I know that before my relationship with God/Jesus, no one was loving me very much.

1. Friendship, prayer and sacrifices must precede apostolate and >preaching.

It’s an assumption to think I do not believe the same.

1. It’s much easier to convert a good friend. Make friends with >them first.

Some people are incapable of being my friend. They want something I have or some talent God has blessed me with. They would rather use me for what they want and give nothing in return. That nothing in return as far as being a friend that is. Money, possesions, these are not important. It’s how you treat me and the love that you show. I will lie down my whole life for you if you let me. If in the end you are not willing to do the same, have I died in vain?

I die to others many times, and often they just want more and more and more without doing any of the same. So I must slowly withdraw from them. I know Jesus said “you recieved without pay, give without pay”. Many of those I would give to, refuse to recieve without pay. They always want to give me money or some kind of reciprocation above and beyond what’s necessary. Eventually they stop compensating. They just keep taking. Then when they’ve bled me dry, they leave.

When I see this is the case to be, I often switch up my mode. I used to be someone who hustled everybody I knew. I was poor and it was my style of life. I took advantage of everybody I could. In the end I had no friends. All through it really I had no friends. I treated God the same way. Now I’ve learned to be God’s friend. I have to work through it, because I know I can’t hustle the Lord. Yet, when I see someone just like me coming across I approach them much differently. It’s easy for me to recognize.

6.In general try to preach with your life. The power of example is >the most powerful sermon.

I think I said this.

Anyway, I went and got defensive with you myself.

This is what I can not understand. Why are we not able to openly discuss. You had to give me a piece of advice. Obviously quoted. I think your intention was good. Why not just talk to me about it though. Don’t hold back your own words. You might say something that is false, but you will learn. I have a free will. I’m able to discern for myself. I compare and contrast everything to what the Lord has said.

to Joysong:

Thanks for being honest and coming from the heart. I think you’d have to understand me more. You’d have to know what I call “preaching”. For example last night it was my friend who brought up religion. In a room full of people. Made many bold statements. Said many things I would never tell people unless they wanted/needed to hear it. Yet when it came time for me to talk after listening to her all night, she got defensive. After calling herself a Christian (which I believe her to be) and talking about how muslims, jews, and christians all believe in the one God. I had to ask her something based on another statement she had made throughout the night. “Do you believe when you are speaking about God that it is, your understanding of our God, or your God of understanding”. In which she admitted that it was not, in fact, our God she believed in. But her God as she understood him. Which…well…I could pull this our into a longer conversation but that’s a road I’ve not only been down…I’ve lived it. It was these things I was slowly becoming aware of all night and I very gently tried to ease her on down the road without pushing her at all and she wouldn’t even let me speak.

Just yet another example. I talk to satanists. I talk to people of all faiths. Usually I just ask them what they believe and listen. They already know I’m a christian. I don’t have to tell them. It’s the assumptions made about me I dislike. If they find out out I’m christian and are not christian and don’t know that I’m catholic (even if they do know I’m catholic), then they assume I’m very naive and all around stupid. If they are christian but find out I’m catholic, then usually it comes around to mary worship and saint worship and all this b.s. they don’t understand and never let me explain. While I sit there and let them explain everything they believe.

This goes above and beyond religion. How are we to function as a society and reach a common understanding if we’re not even willing to listen to what other people think.

 

[cardenio]

Don’t say “I’m right” but “the Church is right.”

Expect them to be only as open-minded as you are.

 

[Viki59]

(even if they do know I’m catholic), then they assume I’m very naive and all around stupid. If they are christian but find out I’m catholic, then usually it comes around to mary worship and saint worship and all this b.s. they don’t understand and never let me explain. .

Welcome to being Catholic. People make a lot of assumptions about Catholics, and it’s very frustrating.
I think we have to just do our best, but leave the converting up to God.

 

[Joysong]

Dear Nathan,

How are we to function as a society and reach a common understanding if we’re not even willing to listen to what other people think.

You will find as you get older and wiser that very few people want to know what you think — it’s all about “me!” Try debating some people on the forum, for instance. Many simply want to vent and get their beefs off their chest, but seldom want to hear a contradictory opinion.

These are the ones I mentioned that are not “open” to your message, and if you persist in attempts to bring truth to them, they will find it offensive and resist anything worthwhile in your message. I just blundered into a gray area today, forgetting my own advice, and I failed to achieve anything at all. I should have known better, but we can use these occasions to offer reparation and prayer, and try to listen better to God’s leading the next time.

It is a hard thing for all of us to learn this sensitivity, and I’m sure you will agree as you recall the difficulty the apostles had as they tried to bring God’s word to Asia. (Acts 16:6) It finally took a vision of a Macedonian to show them where God really wanted them to minister.

Carole

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

You took my advice the wrong way. I was simply pointing out what I’ve learnt through doing apostolate. I was not quoting books etc but my experience. Which has been influenced by reading.

I wish you every success with your apostolate.
Remember that the enemy is always there taking the seed that we sow and creating divisions and working hard to keep people away from the true Church.

 

[NathanCarson]

thanks to all who’ve responded. as you may be just as I am, I go through cycles. Sometimes it’s very hard to accept criticism or advice. I do appreiciate all that was said to me.