I don't understand the Eastern rites

[Monica4316]

Hi,

I’m technically an Eastern Catholic, but since I don’t live near any Eastern rite churches, and since my church (Russian Catholic) doesn’t have its own bishop (but is under the local Latin bishop’s authority), I got permission to follow the Latin calendar and fasts. I’m also more ‘Latin’ in my understanding of the faith and devotions.

I’m a bit confused about the Eastern rite churches… it seems that they are basically how it would be if the Orthodox were in union with Rome. But why are there some theological differences, regarding things like Purgatory, or the Immaculate Conception? How do you view the Pope?

I’m sorry if this question has been asked before, but I’m kind of confused… my understanding is more “Roman Catholic” and I don’t know very much about Eastern Catholicism. Do you still accept Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, the Papacy, transubstantiation? or do you see it more in the Orthodox way? why, why not?

thanks!

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Hi,

I’m technically an Eastern Catholic, but since I don’t live near any Eastern rite churches, and since my church (Russian Catholic) doesn’t have its own bishop (but is under the local Latin bishop’s authority), I got permission to follow the Latin calendar and fasts. I’m also more ‘Latin’ in my understanding of the faith and devotions.

I’m a bit confused about the Eastern rite churches… it seems that they are basically how it would be if the Orthodox were in union with Rome. But why are there some theological differences, regarding things like Purgatory, or the Immaculate Conception? How do you view the Pope?

I’m sorry if this question has been asked before, but I’m kind of confused… my understanding is more “Roman Catholic” and I don’t know very much about Eastern Catholicism. Do you still accept Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, the Papacy, transubstantiation? or do you see it more in the Orthodox way? why, why not?

thanks!

Probably the best and shortest way to answer your question regarding the beliefs of Eastern Catholics is to quote the Melkite Greek Catholic Synod of Bishop’s statement. In the 1990s they officially affirmed the declaration of the “Zoghby Initiative” that states, “I believe everything that Orthodoxy teaches. I am in communion with the bishop of Rome as first among equals according to the understanding of the Fathers of the East in the First Millenium, during the time of union.”

Sadly, however, this often remains just theory. Many, if not the majority of Eastern Catholics, due to poor education in their authentic Eastern heritage, remain simply “Roman Catholics who celebrate Mass funny.” This is something the Vatican has been discouraging for centuries. Since the time of the first reunions in the 16th Century, Rome, on an official level, has been calling Eastern Catholics not to change one iota of their Tradition. But again the reality is often quite different from the “official position.”

Hope this helps.

 

[Aramis]

Actually, Rome really hasn’t been discouraging latinization for centuries… a little over one, yes… but really, even into the 1850’s, Rome was all for romanizing the Byzantines… and the Roman Church Bishops were suppressing the Easterns right up to 1908…

 

[5Loaves]

Upon the Feast!

Hi,

I’m technically an Eastern Catholic, but since I don’t live near any Eastern rite churches, and since my church (Russian Catholic) doesn’t have its own bishop (but is under the local Latin bishop’s authority), I got permission to follow the Latin calendar and fasts. I’m also more ‘Latin’ in my understanding of the faith and devotions.

I’m a bit confused about the Eastern rite churches… it seems that they are basically how it would be if the Orthodox were in union with Rome. But why are there some theological differences, regarding things like Purgatory, or the immaculate conception? How do you view the Pope?

I’m sorry if this question has been asked before, but I’m kind of confused… my understanding is more “Roman Catholic” and I don’t know very much about Eastern Catholicism. Do you still accept Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, the Papacy, transubstantiation? or do you see it more in the Orthodox way? why, why not?

thanks!

HI Monica4316-
Sounds like you made the move and came into the Catholic Church. Congratulations and, perhaps belated, welcome! Last we heard from you I think you were unsure what you were going to do.

I’m glad you’re interested in learning more about the Eastern Catholic Churches. We actually Catholic Churches not Eastern “rites”.

For starters you might watch the Word from the Wise series of interviews Catherine Alexander did with the monks from Holy Resurrection Romanian Catholic Monastery. In “Eastern Catholic Theology PART 2” with Fr. Abbot Nicholas Catherine asks “about doctrines or dogmas proclaimed after the treaties of union, like the immaculate conception”., and "May they reject doctrine and dogmas proclaimed by Rome as incorrect or heretical, like papal supremacy? " In each section click on the “(more info)” link to see a list of the questions she asks in each of the six segments.

I’d encourage you to listen to all the interviews. They aren’t that long and are very good. As a Catholic from Russian patrimony the HRM monks fit right into your Church.

Since you were never catechized in the Orthodox Church, only Baptized and Chrismated there but never received the opportunity to practice the faith, you have indicated before that you don’t have a real sense of Orthodoxy. So you haven’t brought that with you into the Catholic Church. I’d strongly encourage you to focus on learning something about our sacramental and liturgical life in the East for starters. Without that you can’t understand the differences in things like the immaculate conception.

A wonderful gift of the Eastern lung of the Church is our approach to the year’s Feasts, and Fasts. You don’t have to be a practicing Eastern Catholic to benefit from learning more about them and in some ways integrating them into your life in a Latin Catholic parish. I’m a catechist in a Latin parish and I very often bring in aspects of the Feasts and Fasts from a Byzantine perspective. They are the pulse of our daily life. I think Father Loya’s presentation on Feast Days of the Eastern Church Plenary 5 here is a good introduction to that. His weekly radio program Light Of The East on Sunday mornings on Catholic radio is archived here and is also very helpful for Latin Church Catholics interested in learning more about the ECC.

Is there something in particular that has prompted you to go back and want to learn more about your spiritual heritage?

 

[Marc_Anthony]

I have to say, the more I look into the Eastern Churches, the more I love them. They’re really a wonderful part of the Catholic Church. I wish I could go to a Byzantine/Greek Catholic Mass one day. Unfortunately in my family that is totally not an option. Ah well.

Anyway, the whole Greek Catholic Church really seems pretty awesome to me! As long as they’re in communion with the Catholic Church, it’s all good.

 

[5Loaves]

I wish I could go to a Byzantine/Greek Catholic Mass one day. Unfortunately in my family that is totally not an option. Ah well.

If going to Divine Liturgy isn’t an option on Sundays you could look into going to Festal Vigils, as we had this evening before Pentecost tomorrow. Some parishes are able to have Vigil liturgy every Saturday evening. (This is not a Eucharist liturgy, not what Saturday evening Mass is in most Latin Churches. It’s an evening prayer service.) Or you could go to a weekday Feast Day Divine Liturgy like Ascension last Thursday. During Great Lent we have Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts every Wed and Fri. usually in the evenings.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

If going to Divine Liturgy isn’t an option on Sundays you could look into going to Festal Vigils, as we had this evening before Pentecost tomorrow. Some parishes are able to have Vigil liturgy every Saturday evening. (This is not a Eucharist liturgy, not what Saturday evening Mass is in most Latin Churches. It’s an evening prayer service.) Or you could go to a weekday Feast Day Divine Liturgy like Ascension last Thursday. During Great Lent we have Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts every Wed and Fri. usually in the evenings.

Thank you, but it’s not a “timing” thing so much as a “my family would laugh if I asked and then get mad and just won’t take me” thing. Which is unfortunate, but at least I get to go to the Latin Mass most of the time.

 

[Tradycja]

But why are there some theological differences, regarding things like Purgatory, or the Immaculate Conception? How do you view the Pope?

There may be theological differences regarding emphasis on certain aspects of the faith, but there can be no, IS no, difference on dogmatic issues. Liberalism in the latin rite is composed of people who have clown Masses, promote women’s ordination, and believe a whole range of other wacky things. In the Eastern Catholic Churches the liberalism is more hidden due to the nice liturgy and generally sound preaching on spiritual issues. However, the liberalism in the Eastern Catholic Churches (at least in my experience) takes the form of those people who will cast doubt or even have the audacity to deny outright the DOGMAS of Papal Infallibility, purgatory, indissolubility of marriage, Immaculate Conception, etc. These are the same people that are ashamed of St. Josaphat. You only find that out once you have attended liturgy and talked to a wide range of priests in different Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[Walter_Genito]

A couple of things Monica you must at all costs retain your beautiful eastern heritage. Plus canonically speaking only with approval from the Bishop of Rome can one transfer from one rite to the other. Although one could receive the sacraments in a different rite all there life, they are not apart of that rite if they haven’t been baptized into it or have been given a dispensation from the Holy See.

Tradycja by the way, Cardinal Ratzinger, before he became Pope, said that the Eastern Churches are not bound by those Western formulations that occurred after the Great Schism. All these doctrines about Original Sin, Infallibility, etc. None of these have ever been formally declared as dogma by the universal church or taught by the fathers. A purgatorial state was spoken of by the fathers but not the way some later theologians in the West blew it out of proportions.

The Church is both East(in its fullness, which includes the Orthodox) and West. That is why The Council of Basel (I believe) and Pope Paul VI referred to all those councils which occurred after the Schism not as ecumenical but as general synods. What the Pope and the Western bishops agree on is not binding on the east.

For instance, imagine if the President of the United States was also the governor of Virginia. The laws he made with the Virginia legislature are only binding for those in Virginia. It would be absurd to say to New Yorkers, that that local law (canon) is binding on them to. Only if the President makes a law with the Federal Congress is it binding on the WHOLE nation. So also, only decrees (canons) that the Pope made with the bishops at 7 ecumenical councils are binding on the whole church. These general synods are not binding on the whole church.

 

[Walter_Genito]

When i said

“All these doctrines about Original Sin, Infallibility, etc. None of these have ever been formally declared as dogma by the universal church or taught by the fathers”

i meant it in the sense that there are allusions to these things in there writings according to Western interpretation. The east understands the fathers in a different sense. I don’t want to be misquoted.

 

[Hesychios]

Hello Walter,

A couple of things Monica you must at all costs retain your beautiful eastern heritage.

Respectfully, I disagree, she said “… I’m also more ‘Latin’ in my understanding of the faith and devotions.”

She is interiorly Latin, and worships with Latins.

Plus canonically speaking only with approval from the Bishop of Rome can one transfer from one rite to the other.

I don’t think Monica was considering a canonical transfer, I think that she was just looking to be a better informed individual.

Be that as it may, I understand eastern Catholics are encouraged to stay in their churches (or that transfers from eastern Catholic churches to the Latin church are discouraged) but if one is already a Latin in one’s understanding being canonically enrolled as an Eastern Catholic is in reality almost meaningless. In Monica’s case her Russian Catholic church (which has no bishops anywhere and no Chancery) probably has no record of her (it will probably only be a small notation in her Latin parish records) and she might not be counted in the Annuario Pontificio as a Russian Catholic either.

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks everyone!

I like how the Eastern Churches have kept their Orthodox understanding and are in communion with Rome, - I think that’s a good example of what might happen if the Catholic and Orthodox churches would someday reunite

I personally do find it difficult to be an Eastern Catholic, simply because I am mostly “Latin” in my theology, devotions, etc… I suscribe to the “Roman Catholic” dogmas since the Schism, etc… however, I do love icons and Eastern liturgy! So I’m a bit of both. I practice my faith as a Latin cause I don’t live near an Eastern church and since I’m Russian Catholic, my bishop is the local Latin bishop. I’ve talked to him and he said it’s alright if I attend a Latin parish and follow their feast days and fasts. In the future, I don’t know if I’ll start attending an Eastern parish (if I move), of if I’ll get a transfer to the Latin rite… I’ll see what happens. I do love both the East and the West though, for different reasons.

God bless