I failed to stand up for church teaching when talking to a friend

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I met up with a good friend this weekend and had a really nice time.
Among other things we talked about her boyfriend’s family who are non-denominatial Christians and very devout. My friend is Catholic but has not been going to Mass regularly for the last few years and does not go to confession. Last summer she moved in with her boyfriend. She said that his family are horrified by their living together but that she doesn’t care. To that I replied: “Well, …yes.”

How absolutely pathetic. Yes what?? I wanted to say ‘get a grip girl and don’t live in sin!!!’ But instead I gave some kind of a shy nod and hinted that I understood these people’s position. I didn’t have the courage to tell her the truth.

How do you handle situations like this? I find it extremely difficult to be honest, always afraid to appear harsh. I’m also afraid of being judged myself.

I’m very sad that I let God down in this situation.

 

[Dave_in_Dallas]

You don’t mention your relationship your friend, i.e. a good friend you see several times a week, or maybe only once in a while?
Either way don’t beat yourself up for this. It’s often better to live as a Christian/Catholic witness than to tell others how they should live or what they are doing wrong. The fact that she hasn’t been going to Mass for quite sometime further shows that your words would have fallen on deaf ears.
If she asks you what your thoughts are flat out then an approach would be to describe the reasons why it’s not a good idea to live together without using the “'cause the Catholic CHurch says so”. There are many good practical reasons to give her.

 

[Milesius]

I deal with it by not staying friends with people like that. They are always selfish people, and selfish people make bad friends.

“but that she doesn’t care”, the motto of selfish worldly people everywhere.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Dave in Dallas,

We now live in different countries but have a chance to meet up several times a year, are in touch by email and phone once a month or so. She is definitely a close friend. But I guess we have reached an age where as adults (mid 30s) we make decisions on how to live. She knows I attend church on regular basis and take it all very seriously. I don’t think that me saying that she indeed does live in sin would make her change her mind but I still feel that I should have said something. I just don’t know how to address delicate subjects like this.

 

[Dave_in_Dallas]

Dave in Dallas,

We now live in different countries but have a chance to meet up several times a year, are in touch by email and phone once a month or so. She is definitely a close friend. But I guess we have reached an age where as adults (mid 30s) we make decisions on how to live. She knows I attend church on regular basis and take it all very seriously. I don’t think that me saying that she indeed does live in sin would make her change her mind but I still feel that I should have said something. I just don’t know how to address delicate subjects like this.

We’re all broken people in this world. Given the circumstances I stand by original comments. Your her friend, not her judge. Walk with her as she goes through this tough time in her life. She knows right from wrong, just because she chooses wrong doesn’t mean you’re going to stop being her friend does it?

 

[Dave_in_Dallas]

I deal with it by not staying friends with people like that. They are always selfish people, and selfish people make bad friends.

“but that she doesn’t care”, the motto of selfish worldly people everywhere.

Lucky you having non-selfish friends.

Even Jesus’s friends were selfish and deserted him in his time of need.

 

[Milesius]

Lucky you having non-selfish friends.

Even Jesus’s friends were selfish and deserted him in his time of need.

Selfish friends aren’t true friends at all according to the true definition of friendship.

And luck has nothing to do with it, if you make room for true friends by not accepting false ones you will find true friends, if you give yourself to false friends then there is no room for the true ones to enter into your life.

Christ’s friends gave up EVERYTHING to be His friend, to call such men selfish is ridiculous. They did not desert Him in His hour of need, Peter was willing to fight to save Him but Christ forbade Him to do so. Then they hid not out of selfishness but out of fear and confusion.

 

[Crash001]

Don’t be so hard on yourself, you’ll do the right thing the next time…

I had a similar situation about a year ago. I took a friend hiking (he’s about 50, an atheist, a psychologist, hates religion for the most part, and has a somewhat messed up daughter). Well, I asked how she was doing and he went on to tell me how great she was doing, a recent college graduate and barely making a living as a junior psychologist. He went on tell me that she is volunteering every second she gets at an abortion clinic and promoting a “right to choose” every chance she gets.

Being PC, I said, “Good for her” and regret that answer to this date.

I’ll never make that mistake again, not that a more appropriate answer would have resulted in anything except a fight.

For the record, since then, we’ve been more cordial than friends and next time something comes up about abortions being a positive thing, I’ll be in a much better and prepared state of mind.

I hope my story helps.

 

[tjm190]

I’m not sure what your duty is here- I feel like you need to tell her you object, but that’s really about it.

I deal with it by not staying friends with people like that. They are always selfish people, and selfish people make bad friends.

“but that she doesn’t care”, the motto of selfish worldly people everywhere.

…People who don’t follow Church teaching have to be selfish? I suppose they should throw that in the biographies of MLK and Ghandi.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Being PC, I said, “Good for her” and regret that answer to this date.

I’ll never make that mistake again, not that a more appropriate answer would have resulted in anything except a fight.

For the record, since then, we’ve been more cordial than friends and next time something comes up about abortions being a positive thing, I’ll be in a much better and prepared state of mind.

I hope my story helps.

Yes, it does, thanks.
I completely understand your reaction. I feel that I really should be prepared for situations like that and have an answer ready.

I was hoping that the topic of living together would continue because I could have explained how I tried it several years ago (she knows that) but that my conscience was seriously bugging me and that I moved out after a few months. That was one of the best things that I’ve done in my life because after that unfortunate episode I turned to God in earnest and never looked back. This is the part she doesn’t know about. Unfortunately, she changed the topic and we didn’t mention this again. I hope that I will have a chance to discuss it some other time.

 

[Dave_in_Dallas]

They did not desert Him in His hour of need, Peter was willing to fight to save Him but Christ forbade Him to do so.

“Then all the disciples forsook him and fled.” (Matt 26:56, Mk 14:50)

Peter wept bitterly after the cock crowed three times after he had denied Christ 3 times.

 

[Milesius]

“Then all the disciples forsook him and fled.” (Matt 26:56, Mk 14:50)

Peter wept bitterly after the cock crowed three times after he had denied Christ 3 times.

Not out of selfishness Dave out of fear, a selfish person wouldn’t have even cared enough to follow the guards who took Christ away.

"Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it, and struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And the name of the servant was Malchus.

Jesus therefore said to Peter: Put up thy sword into the scabbard. The chalice which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?" John 18:10-11

Would a selfish person risk getting himself condemned to death by attacking a servant of the high priest with a sword to protect his friend?

Peter was willing to sacrifice himself for Jesus at that point but Jesus forbid him to do so knowing that it must be Him who sacrificed Himself for the world.

Then once Christ was taken what was there to be gained by Peter admitting he know Christ and getting arrested? It would not have helped Jesus would it.

 

[crazzeto]

Some times a measure of prudence is necessary when bringing up a topic like this, though you most definetly should bring it up. But don’t just do so out of the blue, wait for the next time she’s discussing this topic. Perhaps she’ll say something like “…isn’t it just crazy that his parents care so much…”, to which you can reply “well not it’s not” {proceed explaining church teaching}.

You’ll certainly offend her, but in this case she essentially ask you your opinion, and as we all know you shouldn’t ask questions you don’t want the answers to

 

[Dave_in_Dallas]

A question to ask yourself is why you got out of a similar situation.
Was it just because you felt guilty or parental pressure? (In that case it wouldn’t be wise to bring up your experiences).
On the other hand, if you got out of it because you realized that there’s a spiritual connection but no committment or maybe that it would have been too easy to get married without fully discerning whether he would have been the right partner… then those might be good experiences to relate with… if she brings up the subject.

Bringing up “because the church say so” to a non-church person almost never works.

 

[catherine126]

Hi Contra Mundum,

You are not alone in this difficulty! I for one was scandalous for years and am just now fully reverting (and loving it), but I’m still learning how to be an advocate for the Church…a good friend of mine once criticized the Pope harshly, and I felt woefully unprepared to defend him. Part of my penance is further study of the papacy

There may very well be another opportunity to discuss this situation. Don’t lose hope! Christ is so patient with all of us

As others have pointed out, the quality and closeness of the friendship matter a great deal when making the decision to discuss morality.

My friend is Catholic but has not been going to Mass regularly for the last few years and does not go to confession. Last summer she moved in with her boyfriend.

I suppose the simplest question to ask here is simply “why?” I think we have to try to understand the motives of the people involved before discussing the role of Christ and His Church. Then - why doesn’t she care what his parents think? What does her boyfriend think? What do they believe about human sexuality and God’s plan? How can they believe such without the certainty of Christ’s Church?

Most of us fail on this point…thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

[Carlan]

Yes, it does, thanks.
I completely understand your reaction. I feel that I really should be prepared for situations like that and have an answer ready.

I was hoping that the topic of living together would continue because I could have explained how I tried it several years ago (she knows that) but that my conscience was seriously bugging me and that I moved out after a few months. That was one of the best things that I’ve done in my life because after that unfortunate episode I turned to God in earnest and never looked back. This is the part she doesn’t know about. Unfortunately, she changed the topic and we didn’t mention this again. I hope that I will have a chance to discuss it some other time.

Yes Contra M, we all need to understand there is always hope to turn back from even our deep, deep integrated sin.
Your witness can still be that realization for her.
Keep looking and waiting and praying for that opportunity to confront her with your powerful witness of what brought you back to the foot of the cross.Peace, Carlan

 

[catholicwriter2]

I deal with it by not staying friends with people like that. They are always selfish people, and selfish people make bad friends.

“but that she doesn’t care”, the motto of selfish worldly people everywhere.

What about living with her boyfriend makes this friend selfish? I really don’t get where that is coming from at all. Maybe misguided or against the church’s practices, but selfish? And I am glad that you can just toss away friendships over one decision somebody makes. That shows how much of a true friend you really are to others.

 

[Milesius]

If you think I am bad you should have met St. Bede!

Or any of the holy hermits for that matter.

To end the relationship is actually the most loving thing you can do as it is just about the only thing that adequately conveys how abhorrent we find obstinate sin and also has the possibility of shocking the friend into examining their conscience and amending their life thus coming closer to saving their soul rather than been damned to hell which is where people who die as unrepentant fornicators go.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

OK, let’s address this selfishness issue that has crept up in the thread.
My friend is not selfish in the way that is discussed here. She is a very insecure woman who has had emotional problems in the past. She latches on to men in hope they will love her. She has faith but is trying to find a compromise and live according to secular ‘morals’ because that’s supposedly normal these days.
I feel very sorry for her and sincerely hope that this guy will turn out to be ok, be willing to get married and that she will eventually find peace of mind and a way back to Christ.
I think that the only thing I can do at this point is keep her in my prayers and perhaps try and have that conversation about sexual morality if the occasion arises again.