I feel just horrible

[Zzyzx_Road]

For Xantippe and Old Maid
Dinner definitely belongs in courtship, shared meals are important, you are both correct about that. But my filter is we have to want to keep seeing each other past the first couple of dates. Then I know there is something there worth exploring, at that point I don’t have a problem opening my wallet and hanging out long enough to consume meals together. It’s not as if I’m a no fun guy, one of the early dates I usually propose is going dancing and I know a few places with reasonable cover charges that I’m willing to pay for both of us. If there’s no chemistry, that’s an easy out, I just get her to dance with my friends and everybody has fun.

Back to the OP, I totally get the awkwardness of sitting there with no chemistry. I’ve been that awkward guy. Except I’m nowhere near as good looking

 

[EasterJoy]

Well, I will be honest and say he was not good looking. However, there was more to it than that. He was being just a bit too caring and too considerate. He was talking as if we knew each other for a long time. He seemed like he was trying to get into my personal space way to fast. He seemed needy

Well, when a man is obviously not interested in a friendly conversation and is being too deep and it is a first date, in the heat of the moment nerves take over and it is hard to just keep making friendly conversation…

You’re not describing “too caring” or “too considerate.” You’re describing someone who wants to cultivate the impression that he is that. Even though he might have been trying to cultivate the impression for honest reasons, here is a huge difference. When a considerate and perceptive person sees that he is getting too personal, he will allow the subject to be changed to more general conversation. This is a learned skill, true, but it takes skill to act in a considerate way.

It helps a great deal to couch what you are learning not in terms of “don’t do such and so” but in terms of “do this”. The example that brought this home to me was the famous, “If someone tells you, ‘Don’t think of an elephant,’ it is impossible to not think of an elephant.” If you don’t want to think of an elephant, think of predators. None of them are anything like an elephant.

If you want to act in a charitable way with someone but DO NOT want to give the impression that you have a romantic interest, then think of someone who is pleasant and friendly but not someone you’d date. Yes, I mean talk as if you were a religious sister or his sister or his mother. Communicate “you seem like a nice enough guy; someone ought to find you the right woman.” Go ahead and be as honest as you are with those you like well enough but don’t want to date. After all–what exactly do you have to lose? As long as you are charitable, it is OK to dash false expectations by making the lack of chemistry in spite of your acceptance of him as a human being as obvious as possible.

Is it a good idea to go to dinner on a first date? That depends. How likely is it that you’re going to have a miserable time if there is no chemistry? If you can enjoy a dinner with a guy who is nice enough but has no chemistry with you, go ahead and go out for dinners. If you need to get out of the room as soon as you find you’re alone in it with some fellow who’d like to interest you but that you do not want to attract, then keep the first few meetings either short or else in such a large group that you can get away gracefully.

IOW, tailor your dating plans to suit your comfort level and the comfort of the fellow you’re meeting to get better acquainted. That can mean a lot of things, but know what the range is for you before you make plans with the next prospect. The more you make your plans with your comfort in mind, the more likely you are to have a good date next time, no matter what the chemistry is like.

 

[Xantippe]

You’re not describing “too caring” or “too considerate.” You’re describing someone who wants to cultivate the impression that he is that.

Good point!

If you want to act in a charitable way with someone but DO NOT want to give the impression that you have a romantic interest, then think of someone who is pleasant and friendly but not someone you’d date. Yes, I mean talk as if you were a religious sister or his sister or his mother. Communicate “you seem like a nice enough guy; someone ought to find you the right woman.” Go ahead and be as honest as you are with those you like well enough but don’t want to date. After all–what exactly do you have to lose? As long as you are charitable, it is OK to dash false expectations by making the lack of chemistry in spite of your acceptance of him as a human being as obvious as possible.

Right.

IOW, tailor your dating plans to suit your comfort level and the comfort of the fellow you’re meeting to get better acquainted. That can mean a lot of things, but know what the range is for you before you make plans with the next prospect. The more you make your plans with your comfort in mind, the more likely you are to have a good date next time, no matter what the chemistry is like.

Yes!

 

[Xantippe]

For Xantippe and Old Maid
Dinner definitely belongs in courtship, shared meals are important, you are both correct about that. But my filter is we have to want to keep seeing each other past the first couple of dates. Then I know there is something there worth exploring, at that point I don’t have a problem opening my wallet and hanging out long enough to consume meals together. It’s not as if I’m a no fun guy, one of the early dates I usually propose is going dancing and I know a few places with reasonable cover charges that I’m willing to pay for both of us. If there’s no chemistry, that’s an easy out, I just get her to dance with my friends and everybody has fun.

Back to the OP, I totally get the awkwardness of sitting there with no chemistry. I’ve been that awkward guy. Except I’m nowhere near as good looking

I think that if I were critiquing your method (without having seen you in action), I would guess that you don’t have a good enough filter at the front end. I have to give you points for guts in asking out what sounds like busloads of women you barely know, but it sounds like you’re taking out a lot of women that you have essentially nothing in common with. No surprise that dinner dates with randomly chosen women are a teensy weensy bit awkward…

When you actually have a major point of shared interest with somebody (both rabid Harry Potter fans, both passionate animal rescuers, both Returned Peace Corps Volunteers, both backyard chicken raisers, both regular tabletop gamers, both engineers, both healthcare workers with 3rd world experience) it’s quite easy to get through a dinner together. And, in fact, one could have not the slightest flicker of sexual interest (for instance, because the person was the wrong sex) and have a really, really good time. Maybe it wouldn’t go anywhere as a dating relationship, but it would not be at all wasted time to have a big conversation with a person that loves what you love.

I think you’re overplaying chemistry and underplaying the importance of shared interests, background and tastes. Assortative mating is very much a thing and it works.

 

[pensmama87]

I wonder if the way the OP’s date behaved was partially in response to her. I know when I am faced with someone who is not really into small talk, and yet I’m kind of forced by the circumstances to stay, I can get really nervous. If I don’t check myself, I can definitely be guilty of oversharing, just in desperation to find *something *to talk about and keep the conversation going with someone who is just meeting me with what feels like stony silence (and yes, I can be guilty of attempts to impress when I do this, because I often worry the person really doesn’t like me, and there’s a lot of people who can’t stand the idea that there are people who don’t like them. )

I’ve gotten better about this as I’ve had more practice, and learned more about etiquette and social rules (people complain about these but really, they are lifesavers when in socially awkward situations - which could be any social situation depending on the people involved.) But different people respond differently to awkward social situations, and it seems like maybe both the OP and her date didn’t handle it well, and to top it off they handled it differently, which made it even more awkward.

 

[Xantippe]

I wonder if the way the OP’s date behaved was partially in response to her. I know when I am faced with someone who is not really into small talk, and yet I’m kind of forced by the circumstances to stay, I can get really nervous. If I don’t check myself, I can definitely be guilty of oversharing, just in desperation to find *something *to talk about and keep the conversation going with someone who is just meeting me with what feels like stony silence (and yes, I can be guilty of attempts to impress when I do this, because I often worry the person really doesn’t like me, and there’s a lot of people who can’t stand the idea that there are people who don’t like them. )

I’ve gotten better about this as I’ve had more practice, and learned more about etiquette and social rules (people complain about these but really, they are lifesavers when in socially awkward situations - which could be any social situation depending on the people involved.) But different people respond differently to awkward social situations, and it seems like maybe both the OP and her date didn’t handle it well, and to top it off they handled it differently, which made it even more awkward.

Right.

I had something like this in a non-dating environment when I first met my future in-laws. My future FIL was doing the stony silence thing and I (being much younger than today) was flailing around trying to fill air time and make a good impression. It was not a success.