I get the impression that . . .

  • Thread starter Thread starter mark_a
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mark_a

Guest
lots of folks here and on EWTN and on Catholic radioand Catholic Answers are not too happy with the USCCB.

Seems to me its mostly the really devout ones with the problem.

Why 'zat?
 
There are a number of good bishops in the USA. The bishops in the Nebraska, Abp. Finn in Kansas City, Cardinal George in Chicago, Abp. Chaput in Denver, Bishop Vasa in Baker Oregon and several others.

The reason why these bishops are well liked is simple, they promote the faith, the whole faith and nothing but the faith. No equivocation, no winks to abortionist politicians, etc. But I think what is most important is that they know and use five very important words.

“Yes” and “No", “Right” and “Wrong” and most important of all “Sin”. They even make occasional references to “Hell”.

Most of these bishops also make accommodations for the Traditional Latin Mass, also known as the Tridentine Mass. This is the Mass that was said throughout nearly all of long history of Christianity, until 1968 when the Novus Ordo Mass was promulgated.

Unfortunately, not all bishops seem as to support the teachings of the Church as firmly as others. Perhaps what annoys people most frequently is bishops who can write lengthy missives and artcles with actually saying a thing. Nothing definite, nothing firm, “everything depends…”

Some make controversial architectural changes to churches, removing sacred art from churches, creating a “Mass in the round”. Some build churches that look like anything except a church. This is particularly offensive to many.

Other complaints have more to do with lack of action. A bishop, for example, who does not come our squarely opposed to abortion or gay marriage often loses respect of the faithful. Others who fail to reign in heretical organizations like Call for Action or Catholic for Choice also loose the respect of those they are charged to serve. Some bishops even support these organizations.

These same bishops, interestingly enough, are also the same ones who generally do not make any reasonable accommodations for those who prefer to attend the Tridentine rite, many ban it altogether in their diocese.

Many of these bishops who are not liked as well seem to embrace a very liberal theology so liberal as to not only be indistinguishable from secular humanism, but sometimes appears to run contrary to Church doctrine.

There is also a feeling that some of the bishops do not take action against public heretics. Particularly galling for many is who is often employed by the diocese. A “peace and justice” coordinator who is more Communist than Catholic. An aide to a bishop with a ciminal record who steals from the diocese. A vocations director who will not permit a young man who favours a celibate priesthood and opposed to women’s ordination, gay marriage or abortion into the seminary.

They fear the five words I mentioned earlier.

But I think what really influenced many people was the way bishops responded to the clergy sex abuse scandal. Some seem to pretend it did not exist. Others claim they did all they could, yet nothing tangible could be seen. Some appear to hide the problem by shuffling abusers around at the cost of the lives and souls of children abused, mostly boys. Not to mention the soul of the abusers by not getting them help or contacting authorities. Some bishops when forced into public testimony left many people scratching their heads and muttering “isn’t perjury a mortal sin?” Some just threw up their hand and declared bankruptcy. In fact, the current president of the USCCB, Bishop Skystad, has been accused of sex abuse of a male teen. Although an investigator the bishop himself hired “cleared” him, the matter is still to be decided in court. He is also one of the three bishops who declared bankruptcy.

On the other hand, some bishops have always called the police first, so to speak (not literally, but pretty close). Perhaps it is not a coincidence that the diocese with these bishops have the lowest number of claimants/parishioner ratio. Many of these have even had a “no homosexuals” policy in their own seminaries for many years. There seems to be a direct correlation with seminaries with these policies and a low number of sex-abuse claims. It was this type of reaction that resulted in parishioners being disappointed, but not scandalized and sickened.

In short, the sex-abuse scandal has probably been the tipping point for many of the faithful.

If they look at their bishop and see someone who handled a difficult problem well, they are disappointed (that abuse happened at all) but relieved. In those diocese where the bishop is perceived to have not done much, exacerbated or even committed these horrific acts, the reaction is, well, less charitable and more angry. The anger, at least in some cases, may even be morally justified.

I know this is a long answer, but it is a complicated problem. I could have made this very short by using cheap shots. In fact I almost did. But those kinds of statements are neither charitable nor informative. Instead, I decided a contrast between respected and not so respected bishops would be better.
 
Wow, now that’s an answer! Thank you for such a thoughtful response. It was so thorough I can’t even tink of a follow-up question.
 
Good post RPP…I’m also trying to better remember the hoopla over the “Always Our Children” pastoral letter that set the USCCB against Rome.
It seems to me that incidents like that show how catholics have gotten the impression the USCCB may consider itself above the magisterium and needs to be reminded who is in charge…and who is not.
 
RPP, I agree with the others but you missed one important point. These liberal bishops worry that if they preach a Gospel that even remotely gives credence to Church teaching on many issues, liberal parishioners will withdraw financial support.

Oh yes, and they want to be liked so they smile and try to please everybody - or at least those they perceive to be the majority - and end up tickling the ears of their listeners.

That’s why Fr John Corapi gets death threats and the USCCB don’t.
 
The USCCB has largely been a bureaucratic, impotent institution which often fails to do anything but spout off weak gobledegook or allow itself to be controled by some of the more liberal elements in the Church and promote these positions. The bishops never seem to be able to come to real agreement on any sort of signifigant stand for much. They typically talk talk talk, ultimately resolving nothing until they agree upon some sort of compromised whatever that ends up meaning little. Then each bishop goes back to his own diocese and deals with things however he personally wants to, anyway. As a result, a lot of Catholics have found the conference frustratingly difficult to tolerate. It’s a sort of, “What’s the point?” “Are they really doing more harm than good?” And, “Why doesn’t my bishop just bish for himself, already?” So observers end up knocking their head against the wall witnessing the insanity of it all.
 
Sometimes I dont even understand the point of these Bishop’s councils (or making the office of Primate a purely ceremonial position). Here in Canada, the CCCB is largely useless.
 
When the Vatican issued the statement Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with Regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in View of Their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders what was the reaction of the Bishops here in the United States? Not a good one. They told the Vatican not to release that document, cause it would “upset the gay communities”. Since when does the Vatican need to be told by USCCB when to release this document? The USCCB needs to understand that the Catholic Church is not a democracy. It’s nonsense.

What did the USCCB do with Cardinal Ratzinger’s letter on politicians and communion? Cardinal McCarrick burned it. They can’t relay a message from the Vatican correctly. Shameful. Look at how horribly they treated Mother Angelica and EWTN, and Raymand Arroyo exposes it big time. EWTN gave the USCCB a message and they didn’t want to hear it. The Church needs reform. Badly. The Church in America is in bad shape. Many bishops and priests excusing themselves from the Church’s high sexual standards hence the sex abuse scandal. All this false ecumenism and then saying that “it’s not necessary to convert the Jews”? Gosh. Then Cardinal Ratzinger released Dominus Iesus. Things in this Church here in the U.S. is a mess! It’s ten times worse in Canada. What a rebelious society we are. Stoning and persecuting the prophets sent to us. Father John Corapi, Mother Angelica, and John Paul II came to us in the way of righteousness and many Catholics refused to believe them. Many non-catholics believed them. Some people just think that being Catholic is enough. Doesn’t work like that. Sounds like the Protestant reformation doens’t it?

What was the reaction of the USCCB when Benedict XVI delivered his** Meeting with the Representatives of Science**? I didn’t hear them defending Pope Benedict’s statements at all. I think there’s a dark force influencing the Church by Catholics who don’t think they’re excommunicated. The USCCB should be done away with and they owe America an apology.
 
I ran out of space and time in first answer to tie all that back to the USCCB.

As others here have pointed out, the perception is that the USCCB is mired in bureaucratic bickering. This seems to be motivated by a strong desire not to offend anyone, even at the cost of faithfulness to Catholic teachings.

Many examples of this include the numerous “indults” (read: compromises) they seek in the manner in which Mass is said. These include:
  • Allowing Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion to purify the sacred vessels.
  • Altering the words of consecration, most controversial is the “This is the cup of My blood … which is shed for all.” The literal translation reads “for many men”.
  • Politically correct translations of Holy Scripture to accommodate feminists.
    Some of the most serious problems many have with the USCCB include:
  • Lack of firm “fraternal correction” to those bishops who seemed to contribute to the sex-abuse scandal.
  • Public criticism of orthodox bishops, such as Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln Nebraska when he excommunicated member of heretical and schismatic groups like Call for Action, Catholics for Choice and SSPX in 1996. (catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=2863) And again this year when her refused to participate in the controversial USCCB sex-abuse audit which he , correctly, claimed was not authorized by the Holy See. (thebishopfabianbruskewitzfanclub.blogspot.com/2006/04/fraternal-correction.html)
  • The apparent inability to make definitive statements on morality. Even on abortion there seems to be some equivocation on the part of the USCCB.
  • The lack of real enforcement on the state a person must be in to receive the Body and Blood of our Lord in Holy Communion.
  • Implied support of heretical organizations, such as Catholics for Choice. Earlier this month, their annual meeting was actually posted on the official USCCB calendar of events on their website (slatts.blogspot.com/2006/10/for-those-who-missed-usccb-calendar.html). It was removed after complaints.
    Yet with all this and what I said in my previous post, it is important that we hold in respect and be obedient to our bishop.
Having said that, we are not to be blindly obedient. If there is clear apostasy or scandal, we are not bound to follow them into apostasy or exacerbate the scandal. St. Thomas Aquinas, a doctor of the Church, said “When matters of faith are at stake, it may be necessary to correct a bishop, even publicly.”
 
At the time of St Athanasius half the bishops followed the heresy of Arius.

Looks like we need another Athanasius.
 
I ran out of space and time in first answer to tie all that back to the USCCB.

As others here have pointed out, the perception is that the USCCB is mired in bureaucratic bickering. This seems to be motivated by a strong desire not to offend anyone, even at the cost of faithfulness to Catholic teachings.

Many examples of this include the numerous “indults” (read: compromises) they seek in the manner in which Mass is said. These include:
  • Allowing Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion to purify the sacred vessels.
  • Altering the words of consecration, most controversial is the “This is the cup of My blood … which is shed for all.” The literal translation reads “for many men”.
  • Politically correct translations of Holy Scripture to accommodate feminists.
    Some of the most serious problems many have with the USCCB include:
  • Lack of firm “fraternal correction” to those bishops who seemed to contribute to the sex-abuse scandal.
  • Public criticism of orthodox bishops, such as Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln Nebraska when he excommunicated member of heretical and schismatic groups like Call for Action, Catholics for Choice and SSPX in 1996. (catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=2863) And again this year when her refused to participate in the controversial USCCB sex-abuse audit which he , correctly, claimed was not authorized by the Holy See. (thebishopfabianbruskewitzfanclub.blogspot.com/2006/04/fraternal-correction.html)
  • The apparent inability to make definitive statements on morality. Even on abortion there seems to be some equivocation on the part of the USCCB.
  • The lack of real enforcement on the state a person must be in to receive the Body and Blood of our Lord in Holy Communion.
  • Implied support of heretical organizations, such as Catholics for Choice. Earlier this month, their annual meeting was actually posted on the official USCCB calendar of events on their website (slatts.blogspot.com/2006/10/for-those-who-missed-usccb-calendar.html). It was removed after complaints.
    Yet with all this and what I said in my previous post, it is important that we hold in respect and be obedient to our bishop.
Having said that, we are not to be blindly obedient. If there is clear apostasy or scandal, we are not bound to follow them into apostasy or exacerbate the scandal. St. Thomas Aquinas, a doctor of the Church, said “When matters of faith are at stake, it may be necessary to correct a bishop, even publicly.”
A lot of our bishops are poorly trained. I think that our laity and the parishners need more of a voice in who gets elected. Often times we see things that clergy don’t.
 
A lot of our bishops are poorly trained. I think that our laity and the parishners need more of a voice in who gets elected. Often times we see things that clergy don’t.
Lord, please do not let that wish come true.

While I know of many bad bishops, I know of many more bad parishoners who would just love to get someone who thinks like them into the bishopric.

A lone Raven
 
Lord, please do not let that wish come true.

While I know of many bad bishops, I know of many more bad parishoners who would just love to get someone who thinks like them into the bishopric.

A lone Raven
Tell that to George Weigel.
 
Do you believe there are more good parishoners, or more parishoners that would like to hear what they want to hear.

If it is left up to a vote, majority rules, and I would not trust the majority in the Catholic Church. It seems that the Majority is corrupt but perhaps it is just the vocal minority.

A lone Raven
 
A lot of our bishops are poorly trained. I think that our laity and the parishners need more of a voice in who gets elected. Often times we see things that clergy don’t.
The church is not a democracy. I do not think priests or bishops should compete in a popularity contest. A bishop is often called upon to make unpopular decisions, particualrly today. “Morality is not determined by a majority vote.” So say the former Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Bennedict XVI.

No, the laity having any part in “electing” a bishop would be a grave mistake. We can see the groveling, havoc and apostasy this has caused in some of the Protestant churches.
 
The church is not a democracy. I do not think priests or bishops should compete in a popularity contest. A bishop is often called upon to make unpopular decisions, particualrly today. “Morality is not determined by a majority vote.” So say the former Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Bennedict XVI.

No, the laity having any part in “electing” a bishop would be a grave mistake. We can see the groveling, havoc and apostasy this has caused in some of the Protestant churches.
I’m only suggesting that we could help Benedict XVI decide who gets elected.
 
I’m only suggesting that we could help Benedict XVI decide who gets elected.
In fact the laity is often involved in the selection of who is elevated to bishop.

According to my priest, someone in Rome sends questionaires to certain of the faithful and clergy asking about a particular priest. These questionaires are under a cannonical seal of secrecy, according to my priest, and no one who gets them can even say if they ever got one, let alone what priest they were asking about. Of course the faithful have to agree to this before they ever get one of these questionaires.

Also, according to my priest, any priest that expresses a desire to be bishop is automatically excluded from consideration as a bishop. This leads, according to my priest, some priests to do a fair bit of, well, winking and crossed fingers while making “passionate” appeals to be removed from consideration as a bishop.

He said that when a priest is appointed a bishop, they usually receive a phone call, traditionally in the middle of the night, saying “You will be elevated.” They do not have the option of turning it down unless there is a serious reason, like dying of cancer, or being involved in some public moral scandal that would not be known about (yet) in Rome (though that does not seem to have stopped some from being elevated.)

He did conclude his (private) explanation about how bishops were chosen by saying he wished there were a better way. He knew that it obvioiusly could not be left to a an open vote. Yet what to do about priests who take the “all things to all people” route at the cost fiath to be bishop. He is also concerned about exactly how some priests are selected for consideration and others are not. And what criteria is used to select the lay faithful who receive the questionaires.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top