I have no sexual guilt

[searching04]

Right or wrong isn’t determined by what we feel… it’s objective. Our conscience must be informed by Church teaching. I’ve read that there are 3 types of consciences…

1. lax conscience - the Church says something is a sin, and you feel it is not. Your conscience has not been formed by Church teaching and is erroneous/incomplete.
2. well formed conscience
3. scrupulous conscience - you feel all kinds of things are a sin when they are not.

It seems that your conscience would be in the first category. Maybe it would help you to learn more about the Church’s teaching on this. Sex needs to be procreative and unitive. Anything that goes against this contradicts what God intended, so it’s a sin. Masturbation is sinful because - it is neither procreative or unitive, it’s based on lust and self gratification rather than self gift to a spouse. That is lust which it says in the Gospels as being sinful. Jesus said, even if you look at a woman lustfully you have committed adultery with her in your heart.

You talked about stress relief, etc, there are SO many other ways to relieve stress. You don’t need to sin and leave grace.

Please don’t receive Communion until you repent and confess this. Talk to a priest…

Not your call. Do you I have had priests (and very devout, high ranking ones) say that Communion forgives venial sins, so do not stay away. Still need to go to confession, but not avoid Communion.

God bless

 

[searching04]

Great post, Rache: seriously accurate Paragraph Two and a very funny Paragraph One, which is rather perceptive about the state of sexual politics in 21st century America.

And rather assumptive and judgmental of both of you.

 

[Rache]

And rather assumptive and judgmental of both of you.

Oh dear…just re-read the “Who knows?” part and the “in my experience” part. sigh

 

[searching04]

I do understand the reasons that The Church teaches that impurity with self is sinful…male or female. However, as a gynecologist (where many things of sexual nature and questions thereof are posed to me…), are there mitigating circumstances especially for women. Women who habitually and decidedly masturbate with lust on their mind and in their heart…do exist. Most do not tell me it as concern about sin, but just have questions about eg sexual dysfunction with their husband…and the inability to achieve orgasm. (They usually do not ask…nor do I think it is their concern that it is sinful). But my understanding of Catholic teaching is that sexual acts which achieve orgasm in the female as part of or in preparation for intercourse are acceptable.

Though…I am not sure

In the case of the woman who very rarely masturbates (single, widowed)…she may describe a sense of what seems to be a simple physical urge or drive…apart from lustful fantasy. Would this be a sin with “lack of full consent of the will” or mitigating circumstance? I suppose somehow another this is unchaste simply by definition. What would I say to such a woman who is concerned from a spiritual perspective…perhaps left to a priest…Though they may not ever get spiritual education or help…because they are often terribly embarrassed and ashamed…taking much courage to discuss it with their female doctor…not likely with a male priest…sometimes for fear of being inappropriate to their priest.

Ironically it is the latter group that are more worried about their actions, they feel guilt shame, embarrassment…though usually without lust. The former group…often own a vibrator…often just want advice about how to use it more effectively…or complain that it is not working anymore…wonder what is wrong with their normal sexual function.

That said…as a doctor…and human. It must be admitted that libido is natural and part of humanity. It was given to us as a gift to procreate and bond women and men in intimacy (think elderly couples past childbearing ages…sex is still for intimacy.)

So I guess, one of my questions is how do I help women who are concerned about very occasionally acting on their libido. I do not want to make them feel shame…but I am not their spiritual director or priest.

Thank you,
Unworthy Handmaiden

Encourage them to talk to a priest, but also read what the definition is in the CCC - there are three parts (rats, can’t remember). Though some will argue it doesn’t take all three, some will say culpability is lessened depnding on circumstances - habit, background/upbringing, seeking only pleasure, etc.

Also tell them the the libido is natural and maybe get hubby to help more, one way or another. But as a priest has said, do not beat yourself up either. Be repentent, do your best, come to confession. We’re human.

 

[handmaidenByzC]

But as a priest has said, do not beat yourself up either. Be repentent, do your best, come to confession. We’re human.

I like that…good sound supportive spiritual advice!!

 

[Elizabeth502]

Oh dear…just re-read the “Who knows?” part and the “in my experience” part. sigh

Exactly. I think she missed the entire theme of the post, which was about culture (and my echo, which stressed a certain idiosyncracy of today’s culture in particular, with some amusement about some aspects of that culture).

 

[TedDC]

Where the Bible is silent the Church has the authority to speak. It says so in the Bible.

More precisely, the Church interprets the Bible as saying so,

 

[Schurk30]

I am 15 years old and Roman Catholic. I asked my pastor if masturbation was a sin and he said that it is not a sin UNLESS it becomes a habit and owns us. Now you might be thinking this pastor is terrible; but in reality he is one of the smartest and most logical priest I have ever met. He is also one of the best priests in terms of religious beliefs. And he puts into perspective of what is the greater good instead of mortal and venial sins. For example, if you had the chance to kill Hitler would you do it? Even though it is one of the commandments to not kill, but if it is to kill one of the most evil human beings on earth it can’t be a sin because the greater good outweighs the bad here. That’s how I see it now on what’s mortal and venial. If this priest who understands the catholic faith better than any of you in this thread states that masturbation isn’t a sin; then in my opinion it is not a sin. God loves every human being and he knows who we are because he created every trait in our life. I’m sure that he would not be angry over a natural part of life because that is what masturbation is. A NATURAL PART OF LIFE. No ifs ands or buts. I love God and I know he loves me even if I masturbate from time to time. I know because when I pray to him and ask him for needs; he answers my prayers because he loves me no matter who I am. You may argue with me on my belief but it is the truth. I am a good-hearted person and I don’t think i’ll be condemed to hell for what I think. Thank You. God Bless EVERYONE

 

[NewsTheMan]

I asked my pastor if masturbation was a sin and he said that it is not a sin UNLESS it becomes a habit and owns us.

I asked my pastor, and he said killing someone is not a sin unless it becomes a habit and owns me. Your pastor is wrong.

Now you might be thinking this pastor is terrible; but in reality he is one of the smartest and most logical priest I have ever met. He is also one of the best priests in terms of religious beliefs

I have no doubt he is trying to be a very good priest and comes off as very intelligent. However, he is speaking against Church teaching - against people who are twice as logical, twice as smart and twice as good in terms of religious beliefs

And he puts into perspective of what is the greater good instead of mortal and venial sins. For example, if you had the chance to kill Hitler would you do it? Even though it is one of the commandments to not kill, but if it is to kill one of the most evil human beings on earth it can’t be a sin because the greater good outweighs the bad here

.

This is a very complicated issue - and it confuses the real issue. Mortal and venial sins are a reality. He is putting your soul at danger if he is teaching some kind of greatest happiness principle. We are not utilitarians as Catholics. Sin is real. It will destroy your soul. The great thing about Church teaching is that it can show how even false doctrines have elements of truth. Committing venial and mortal sins - in the end - will make things worse off in the end and the greater good will be diminished. I know you are young and some things are hard to understand, but your priest is wrong.

That’s how I see it now on what’s mortal and venial.

That’s not what the Church teaches and it puts you in great danger!

If this priest who understands the catholic faith better than any of you in this thread states that masturbation isn’t a sin;

How do you know he knows it better than we do? Most importantly, if he goes against Church teaching then he clearly doesn’t know it better!

then in my opinion it is not a sin.

This is extremely dangerous thinking. Your opinion? Well, in my opinion killing babies for fun is not a sin. See how dangerous this thinking is?

God loves every human being and he knows who we are because he created every trait in our life. I’m sure that he would not be angry over a natural part of life because that is what masturbation is. A NATURAL PART OF LIFE. No ifs ands or buts.

No, my friend. This is what the world will tell you because the world loves sin. It is not natural. It is not a part of life. God loves every human being but we have to love him too, and that means we have to follow his commandments even if sometimes they make no sense to us.

I love God and I know he loves me even if I masturbate from time to time.

In some sense this is true. He loves you despite your sin. But don’t take advantage of that. Don’t make Christs death your excuse for sin. That would be evil in itself. Don’t try and make excuses.

I know because when I pray to him and ask him for needs; he answers my prayers because he loves me no matter who I am. You may argue with me on my belief but it is the truth. I am a good-hearted person and I don’t think i’ll be condemed to hell for what I think. Thank You. God Bless EVERYONE

You sound like a good person who is trying their best to follow Christ. It can be confusing, I know. But you need to know the truth. You need to know what the Church teaches.

www.chastity.com is a good resource. Also look up the Catechism and masturbation, and stay around this forum to learn more.

 

[fred_conty]

Lovingyou, here is a website made just for you.

www.davidmacd.com/catholic/masturbation.htm

 

[Rache]

Lovingyou, here is a website made just for you.

www.davidmacd.com/catholic/masturbation.htm

Ohh that was a great link! And the quote from CS Lewis seems to be spot on.

 

[dailey]

Sigh. Poster wasn’t constructing an argument. Poster was making a simple point that perhaps was meant to be a bit confusing in order to get the point across.

You’re trying too hard, precisely because you’ve missed the point.

Since this is a Catholic forum, and the Moral Theology Subforum, yes, your opinion is irrelevant and so is mine. Give Church teaching, which is the truth. Don’t mislead people. If you want to give your opinion, create a thread about it.

The Catechism is open for debate? News to me. It is an absolute. Masturbation is gravely disordered and immoral. No opinion necessary about that.

I didn’t say you said that, so your own attempt at trying to explain my strawman is itself a strawman.

Your point? Oh, in that case…

“Merely attempting” to make a point doesn’t have any bearing on whether someone commits a fallacy or not, fallacies are errors in logic and it can occur whether they are merely stating this, or merely stating that.

I have no doubt Priests have opinions. Where did I say otherwise? That doesn’t mean one should go to them. You’re telling us that we should go to a priest in order to get his opinion, as if this is what matters - the interpretation of the priest. Nonsense. We go to what the Church says, and if the priest disagrees we should correct him. Perhaps the reason you love the responses you’ve gotten is because they agree with your position? Hmm.

Aha, I see. So you’re an internet philosopher, huh? Thanks for the lesson but my degree in Philosophy was good enough, thank you You can rebutt all you like, but you called people who direct you towards Church teaching “pseudo-Cardinals” as an attack on their person, as if they believe themselves to be more important than they are, as well as calling everybody who disagrees with you a gloom and doom naysayer. Ad hominem as it bears no weight in whether or not masturbating is sinful.

Rest of your post was self-righteous ranting and patronizing clap-trap.

Look, either way, the OP needs to know that masturbating is gravely disordered and sinful. If OP continues, she will go to Hell. I know, I know, you’ve made it clear you think this is doom and gloom psuedo-Cardinal hell scaring. Cool story bro. It is what it is. You can argue all you like and dress up your posts, but the truth is what it is.

Have a good one, I won’t be responding again.

VERY good response! Of course, I’m sure it will fall on deaf ears…