I have questions about Jesus going to “hell”

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So. I know it wasn’t exactly hell. Lost and translation. But. He went to “limbo “? And saved all the people bf him. But there are 3 things that make a sin grave now. Was there 3 things that made a grave sin then? What people were in limbo or “hell”. Bf juesu
 
Markyman said:
So. I know it wasn’t exactly hell. Lost and translation. But. He went to “limbo “? And saved all the people bf him. But there are 3 things that make a sin grave now. Was there 3 things that made a grave sin then? What people were in limbo or “hell”. Bf juesu
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About sin, it is the same before and after.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was “raised from the dead” presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ’s descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead. But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:481 "It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483

478 Acts 3:15; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 15:20; cf. Heb 13:20.
479 Cf. 1 Pet 3:18-19.
480 Cf. Phil 2:10; Acts 2:24; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9; Pss 6:6; 88:11-13.
481 Cf. Ps 89:49; 1 Sam 28:19; Ezek 32:17-32; Lk 16:22-26.
482 Roman Catechism I, 6, 3.
483 Cf. Council of Rome (745): DS 587; Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011; Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077; Council of Toledo IV (625): DS 485; Mt 27:52-53.
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Hell has traditionally always referred to the state outside of Heaven. It included the damned, the holy souls in Purgatory, and the time before Christ for everybody.

In modern language we don’t usually use the word like that.

We even say this in the prayer to honor the Face of Jesus:

“May the Lord always be blessed, praised, loved, adored, and glorified. In Heaven, on Earth, and in hell, by all the creatures of God, and by the most sacred heart of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Sacrament of the Altar”.
 
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Holy Saturday is the most confusing aspect of the Nicene Creed. To me, and apparently to many.
There are the permutations of the rhelm of the dead. You have sparse scriptural passages to start. The influence of ideas like Hades creeps into some writings. ( If I recall from reading Inferno many years ago, the journey with Virgil even begins with THE BOATMAN.)
Dante centuries later had great influence with this idea.
You have the 20th Century writings of Von Balthazar, and push back by Conservative influences seeking to identify a place of the dead vs dead plus damned( their position)
Then I got to thinking that Ransom Theory of Atonement was dominant in the Church for a thousand years. Origen, Augustine, Gregory of Nyssa, and others.
Payment of Ransom to the devil. The devil essentially trades and accepts Jesus as Ransom those souls ADAM AND EVE placed in hell. Only to loose Jesus also on Easter Sunday.
The theory has much more but the point is the decent and payment to the devil.
It seems as if all souls were consigned TO THE DEVIL PERIOD, AND not some idea of two DEVIL rhelms. I always thought the Devil was in hell, period. With the damned. Not this LIMBO GROUP.
SO the whole thing is very confusing.
The Church has had many ideas about Atonement which I think contributes to the vagueness.
I have to say, Von Balthazar ideas are appealing. The idea of Christ’s suffering is riviting and his casting of his light forever permeating in victory.
A travesty for those who insist on a tidy lock down of the damned.
I suppose mystery is often used and that has even been a criticism, but I am growing to think it is a recognition to be embraced.
 
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What is it specifically that you are talking about with Von Balthazar? He didn’t teach that the damned (whoever they might be) can be saved, otherwise they wouldn’t be called the damned.
 
I am no expert on his ideas, but my recollection was the Hell( Sheol) of Christ’s decent was not segregated DAMNED VS NOT DAMNED. Or in terms of infant hell or the like.
I understand what you are saying.
But he does smash the gate down, and cast his light.
I also recall vaguely that after, there might have then been a deliniation to accomodate the redeemers role as judge( of the living an the dead). This idea if I recall sounded like a reconfiguration.
 
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TK421 said:
“May the Lord always be blessed, praised, loved, adored, and glorified. In Heaven, on Earth, and in hell, by all the creatures of God, and by the most sacred heart of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Sacrament of the Altar”.
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I’ve said that prayer quite a bit and the version I was given said “In Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth.” It did not refer to “hell”.

“Under the Earth” always made me think of earthworms and moles and such giving praise to God.
Or maybe miners.
 
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Markyman said:
So. I know it wasn’t exactly hell.
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Sheol and Hades were the Hebrew and the Greek names attached to the same idea, which was the place where the souls of all the dead dwelt in the afterlife. The Witch of Endor episode shows that Samuel, for all his great merit as a prophet, was condemned to spend eternity in the same gloomy underworld as everybody else.

It was only toward the end of the OT period that Judaism developed the idea of a segregated Heaven and Hell, one where good people are rewarded and the other place where bad people are punished. Hell, in this sense, is Gehenna in Hebrew, though that word is found only in the NT, not in the OT, except as a geographical name. It was originally the name of a valley just outside the Jerusalem city walls, where in earlier centuries the Canaanites had performed human sacrifices.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
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TK421:
“May the Lord always be blessed, praised, loved, adored, and glorified. In Heaven, on Earth, and in hell, by all the creatures of God, and by the most sacred heart of our Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Sacrament of the Altar”.
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I’ve said that prayer quite a bit and the version I was given said “In Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth.” It did not refer to “hell”.

“Under the Earth” always made me think of earthworms and moles and such giving praise to God.
Or maybe miners.
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Yeah that’s the version I usually pray too. But “under the earth” means “hell” in Sister Mary of St Peter’s visions. She reflects in her journal that “hell” includes purgatory.
 
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Interesting. I cannot figure out why that woman does not seem to have a sainthood process and why her act seems to have been totally copped by Blessed Maria Pierini and Venerable Leo Dupont.
 
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I don’t understand it either. But a person who isn’t canonized isn’t necessarily less holy than a person who is. I do know from reading the book on the Holy Face that the bishop was regrettably not completely amiable to her writings and Jesus told her that without the Holy Face devotion, communism would spread.
 
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Communism? What " isms" would Jesus like? There were nothing but Kingdoms in his day.
I recently read DAVID Bentley Hart’s essays on Capitalism. He makes a persuasive argument that Capitalism I almost synonymous with Secularism, consumerism and relativism.
What is the proper “ism”?
 
Maximus1 said:
What " isms" would Jesus like?
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Catholicism 😁

Mysticism
Sacramentalism
Scholasticism
Abolitionism
Sacerdotalism

Don’t forget thermoperiodism. Jesus is a big fan of temperature control in botany.

Sorry, I couldn’t help it.
 
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