I just listened to a debate between Dave Hunt and Gerry Matatics

[JDGaney]

So, they got to the issue of indulgences and suffering for the expiation of sin. Hunt argued that only Jesus could do this, and we cannot, and that the Catholic Church contradicts itself on the teachings of suffering by promising that by our voluntary suffering for others, we can remove suffering from them.

here it is, full length:
youtube.com/watch?v=OS66eyhVPRA

My understanding is that the prayer of a righteous man avails much, so why couldn’t we pray to help people along in their journey?

 

[Dorothy]

So, they got to the issue of indulgences and suffering for the expiation of sin. Hunt argued that only Jesus could do this, and we cannot, and that the Catholic Church contradicts itself on the teachings of suffering by promising that by our voluntary suffering for others, we can remove suffering from them.

here it is, full length:
youtube.com/watch?v=OS66eyhVPRA

My understanding is that the prayer of a righteous man avails much, so why couldn’t we pray to help people along in their journey?

Scripture tells us to pray and intercede for one another.

Also there is the Scripture that explains that in our suffering we can make up what is lacking in the suffering of Christ. (Not that there is anything lacking in our Lord’s sufferings, but we are the extension of His life and can offer up our sufferings in union with Him for the benefit of all. We don’t necessarily “remove suffering from them”, but we can offer our sufferings for the spiritual benefit of others (and ourselves).

Many saints have told us that there is great value in suffering when we do so in union with Christ. If we knew and understood its value we would not cringe from suffering.

 

[Memaw]

Scripture tells us to pray and intercede for one another.

Also there is the Scripture that explains that in our suffering we can make up what is lacking in the suffering of Christ. (Not that there is anything lacking in our Lord’s sufferings, but we are the extension of His life and can offer up our sufferings in union with Him for the benefit of all. We don’t necessarily “remove suffering from them”, but we can offer our sufferings for the spiritual benefit of others (and ourselves).

Many saints have told us that there is great value in suffering when we do so in union with Christ. If we knew and understood its value we would not cringe from suffering.

I have heard Gerry debate many years ago. I will listen to this later. Thanks, Memaw

 

[GLam8833]

Actually, we CAN alleviate another’s suffering by
identifying WITH them thru denial of necessities!
2 Cor 1:6 says that “if we are AFFLICTED it is for
YOUR comfort…and patient enduring of the SAME
sufferings which WE ALSO suffer”
It is simple BODY politics, if one part suffers, the other
parts ALSO SUFFERS, we are one body in CHRIST
our head! 1 Cor 12:26

 

[orang]

Wanted to say appreciated, listened to most of the tape last night and it was a nice change to reading. Had some opinion but don’t think it would be anything new and that guy ( I’m terrible with names) representing Catholicism was good to listen to. Will probably listen to the rest in a day or so. I think I’m at about 3/4 through.