I kinda support gay rights to marriage

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Look I understand where you guys are coming from but maybe I see it differently. We are seeing it through christian eyes (as we are) and hence a christian marriage is invalid.
But perhaps for them marriage is something else entirely. Perhaps it’s just a legal/psychological confirmation for them to show their commitment. They may not necessarily see it as a sacrament as we do. So why not just be happy for their commitment?

And for those who replied about the catholic-orthodox thing, thanks. The thing is the most simple arguments sway me over to the other side. It’s complicated really but I’m still undecided. I can explain later

Anyone can have a legal contract for half of ones stuff, medical rights at hospitals, and a statement of love.

Personally I think you need to think long and hard about what marriage is to you. Not to the world, not to the two men who wish to sodomize each other, and not to those who wish to have more than one spouse. I think you need to really think about why God made it a sacrament, when He made it a sacrament. And what the purpose of that is.

I guess what I am having a hard time with is that you say that you don’t personally agree with homosexual marriage in your first post. That you think it is wrong. And here you also say that you see what we are saying, but all I see from your end is advocation of something that is incongruent with your faith no matter which Church you choose. You have been asked questions but have not answered them. You can only say so much without having a meaningful and educational discussion.

What is marriage? Define it.

 

[clem456]

Look I understand where you guys are coming from but maybe I see it differently. We are seeing it through christian eyes (as we are) and hence a christian marriage is invalid.
But perhaps for them marriage is something else entirely. Perhaps it’s just a legal/psychological confirmation for them to show their commitment. They may not necessarily see it as a sacrament as we do. So why not just be happy for their commitment?

Catholicism acknowledges the meaning and reality of the physical world. Christ himself took on human flesh. Christ is not a “legal psychological confirmation of God’s commitment”, he is God in-carnated.

Because God created us both spiritually and materially, and because Christ takes on human flesh, our bodies and the things we do with them have deep theological significance. We are not free to abuse our physical being, using it in ways not designed, or neglecting it. This extends to how we treat others.
And if you deny this reality, why would you protect the materials needs of the poor, why do you visit the sick and imprisoned? They will surely go to heaven, so why bother? If your faith commitment is based on psychology and feelings and not objective human dignity, you can begin to see the quicksand we step into.

We can be happy for commitments of various kinds as long as they are not deceptions. You would not be happy for my commitment to J-Lo, would you? By deception, I mean that the real nature of an action or of a relationship is denied. Gay marriage pretends to be something it is not.

 

[Millie123]

Because their relationship together is a disordered sexual relationship, to take a disordered sexual relationship and call it good, and asking Catholics to feign happiness with the disorder is basically asking us to call a vice a virtue…which is a lie. How can I look at someone suffering from a vice and call it virtuous and good?

Let me give you an example, several years ago my oldest brother had his first extramarital affair with another woman (a disordered sexual relationship with someone else). He brought this woman over to my parents to introduce to everyone, and He “loved” her and wanted us to love and accept their relationship as well. As much as he wanted us to be happy about their relationship…it was impossible for us to even feign happiness…because of how disordered the relationship is.
He wanted us to look at the relationship with the same feelings of happiness the he was feeling, and to give our acceptance with his disordered sexual relationship…he wanted us to call his vice a virtue, basically he wanted us to lie and feign happiness for him, which was impossible

 

[Renarax]

Because their relationship together is a disordered sexual relationship, to take a disordered sexual relationship and call it good, and asking Catholics to feign happiness with the disorder is basically asking us to call a vice a virtue…which is a lie. How can I look at someone suffering from a vice and call it virtuous and good?

Let me give you an example, several years ago my oldest brother had his first extramarital affair with another woman (a disordered sexual relationship with someone else). He brought this woman over to my parents to introduce to everyone, and He “loved” her and wanted us to love and accept their relationship as well. As much as he wanted us to be happy about their relationship…it was impossible for us to even feign happiness…because of how disordered the relationship is.
He wanted us to look at the relationship with the same feelings of happiness the he was feeling, and to give our acceptance with his disordered sexual relationship…he wanted us to call his vice a virtue, basically he wanted us to lie and feign happiness for him, which was impossible

I must say you’re explanation made the most difference. And the ones before you. Good work

So what do you do when explaining your views to a homosexual?

 

[Millie123]

So what do you do when explaining your views to a homosexual?

Ive never had the opportunity to discuss my views with homosexuals. The only homesexuals I know are at my work. It would be grossly inappropriate for me to comment on people’s sex lives at work

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I must say you’re explanation made the most difference. And the ones before you. Good work

So what do you do when explaining your views to a homosexual?

If you have the opportunity to share your faith and have a discussion with a homosexual that is respectful then you do it. I have known many homosexuals and some are open to discussion and others are not. But most importantly you must know your faith and also believe it.

 

[SuperLuigi]

=kozlosap;12474100]At the very advanced age of 61, if I was to marry, it certainly would not be for purposes of procreation. It would be for love.

Males are fertile throughout most of their lives.

In order to be able to argue against marriage equality, there needs to be a different rationale used,

There is no marriage “equality” regarding so-called gay “marriage”. If it was truly equal to traditional marriage, then it wouldn’t need help from parades or the government.

Furthermore, there are PLENTY of secular arguments against so-called gay “marriage”.

especially in the 21st century developed world.

This wouldn’t by any chance be the same 21st century where China, Russia and ISIS are asserting themselves, would it?

Just how long do those who support so-called gay “marriage” think it will last?

I wish I had a dollar everytime someone arguing for a progressive cause said that.

“It’s the modern era----get with it”.

Haven’t we heard stuff like that a lot in the last 2000 years from nations, empires and people who aren’t smart as they think or want others to think who are now part of the fossil record?

 

[SuperLuigi]

If you have the opportunity to share your faith and have a discussion with a homosexual that is respectful then you do it. I have known many homosexuals and some are open to discussion and others are not. But most importantly you must know your faith and also believe it.

Just remember that a lot of the emotional folks on this issue are straights just looking to make a name for themselves. Perhaps they like to think there’s a stadium full of GLBTQ folks cheering them on and ready to certify them as tolerant.

Also note that some of the loudest voices on this will also defend Islam with equal (if not more) fervor.

And they wonder why I doubt the lasting nature of their cause.

Otherwise, I think a lot of GLBTQ folks are calm and polite compared to some of the straights.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I think it is sad that we have distorted marriage so much that we cannot agree on what it is for, what sexes it is between and how many people it should have in it. So, I ask you, what is marriage? Why did God make it a sacrament? And why should homosexuals be able to attain it. Bottom line, What do you think the purpose of marriage is?

:clapping::clapping:

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Males are fertile throughout most of their lives.

There is no marriage “equality” regarding so-called gay “marriage”. If it was truly equal to traditional marriage, then it wouldn’t need help from parades or the government.

Furthermore, there are PLENTY of secular arguments against so-called gay “marriage”.



This wouldn’t by any chance be the same 21st century where China, Russia and ISIS are asserting themselves, would it?

Just how long do those who support so-called gay “marriage” think it will last?

I wish I had a dollar everytime someone arguing for a progressive cause said that.

“It’s the modern era----get with it”.

Haven’t we heard stuff like that a lot in the last 2000 years from nations, empires and people who aren’t smart as they think or want others to think who are now part of the fossil record?

Πάρτε με τη σύγχρονη εποχή

The Google Translate for the Greek “get with the modern times.” LOL you know, the Greek where homosexual unions are a “modern” problem…

 

[on_the_hill]

We are not free to abuse our physical being, using it in ways not designed, or neglecting it. This extends to how we treat others.
And if you deny this reality, why would you protect the materials needs of the poor, why do you visit the sick and imprisoned? They will surely go to heaven, so why bother? If your faith commitment is based on psychology and feelings and not objective human dignity, you can begin to see the quicksand we step into.

It seems like you could be arguing that ‘we’ (the generic we) should oppose gay marriage because to do otherwise would, to some extent, allow a person to make sinful decisions about his own life.

 

[Fred_E]

At the very advanced age of 61, if I was to marry, it certainly would not be for purposes of procreation. It would be for love. In order to be able to argue against marriage equality, there needs to be a different rationale used, especially in the 21st century developed world.

Your situation is a result of the aging process, a natural normal human condition, not some barrier you personally erected to prevent conception.

At least in theory you could still become pregnant - there are cases in the medical records - and nothing you have done stands in the way of that occurring.

Same sex relations are completely a different matter.

Certainly people of varying ages and sexes are morally permitted to love on another.

Sexual relations, however, is a different matter. You appear to equate sexual relations and love in your brief statement of belief.

If you love someone, you wish them well. You seek their good. Engaging in immoral acts with them is hardly a sign of “love”, it’s a sign of immaturity and self-centeredness.

The rationale is solid but your understanding of it and what constitutes “love” may not be.

 

[holyrood]

I just wanted your opinion on this topic. Whether it’s sinful or not.

I genuinely feel that people can love anyone they want and should have the right to marry the ones who they love. While I certainly don’t condone it I’d go to one if I was invited (as long as the minister isn’t actually a priest.)
I mean they don’t have to get married in a christian style wedding right?

I’ve begun noticing that many Christians have started to support it. What about you?

Yes, it is sinful to encourage, promote, or condone sin.

As mentioned elsewhere, if marriage is purely about ‘love,’ then we need to remove ALL restrictions on marriage. Number, age, biological relation, species. It all needs to go, if marriage is truly about ‘love.’

Part of the problem with redefining marriage is that those who don’t condone it are already being forced to participate against their will (ie, photographers, bakeries, venues). I have already begun to wonder if I, as a musician, will be persecuted if I refuse to play for a mock wedding.

I can guarantee that if photographers, bakers, and inns are already being targeted and persecuted, clergy is next. Look around the internet, and you’ll see plenty of people already claiming that religious beliefs may not exempt anyone from anything. The logical conclusion to these two thoughts and the already-developing trend, is that Christian clergy will be forced to officiate at these ‘weddings.’

Haha well I dont really have experience really. But yes I don’t support the adoption part but if it’s just marriage because of love . . . Why not?

See above. I can tell you from my many wanderings around the internet, that the ‘polyamorists’ are already beginning their push to redefine marriage further to include any number of people. They are using the exact same reasoning: why shouldn’t they be allowed to married who they love?

Whether or not gay people are married, they’re not going to give birth. So how would gay marriage lead to a decline in birth rates, which seems to be what you’re implying?

I think it’s not JUST about redefining marriage, but about the entire societal mindset behind it, which is that people are entitled to anything they desire. An entire society living for its own pleasure, instead of stopping to think a little more deeply; a society that lives for its sexual pleasure instead of digging into eternal truths; a society that bases its laws on ‘but they want…’ is a society that is far less inclined to produce children at all. Because raising children takes a lot of self sacrifice, which is the complete opposite of this mindset.

This, of course, is only one small piece of the answer to your question. I’m sure others have or will give more answers to it.

I’m always unsure of a position when it’s based on “what ifs?”

I’m not a supporter of gay marriage, but this argument never holds up, in my opinion.

It should hold up. As I noted above, it’s already happening. This is not theoretical. The push to redefine marriage further is ALREADY STARTING.

 

[Renarax]

Yes, it is sinful to encourage, promote, or condone sin.

As mentioned elsewhere, if marriage is purely about ‘love,’ then we need to remove ALL restrictions on marriage. Number, age, biological relation, species. It all needs to go, if marriage is truly about ‘love.’

Part of the problem with redefining marriage is that those who don’t condone it are already being forced to participate against their will (ie, photographers, bakeries, venues). I have already begun to wonder if I, as a musician, will be persecuted if I refuse to play for a mock wedding.

I can guarantee that if photographers, bakers, and inns are already being targeted and persecuted, clergy is next. Look around the internet, and you’ll see plenty of people already claiming that religious beliefs may not exempt anyone from anything. The logical conclusion to these two thoughts and the already-developing trend, is that Christian clergy will be forced to officiate at these ‘weddings.’

See above. I can tell you from my many wanderings around the internet, that the ‘polyamorists’ are already beginning their push to redefine marriage further to include any number of people. They are using the exact same reasoning: why shouldn’t they be allowed to married who they love?

I think it’s not JUST about redefining marriage, but about the entire societal mindset behind it, which is that people are entitled to anything they desire. An entire society living for its own pleasure, instead of stopping to think a little more deeply; a society that lives for its sexual pleasure instead of digging into eternal truths; a society that bases its laws on ‘but they want…’ is a society that is far less inclined to produce children at all. Because raising children takes a lot of self sacrifice, which is the complete opposite of this mindset.

This, of course, is only one small piece of the answer to your question. I’m sure others have or will give more answers to it.

It should hold up. As I noted above, it’s already happening. This is not theoretical. The push to redefine marriage further is ALREADY STARTING.

Very well written. Now I’m beginning to see what you guys are saying.

But just asking- if you ever get invited to a gay wedding how will you reject? I surely won’t be able to.
In such a situation wouldn’t it be better to attend a gay marriage OUTSIDE the church? Seeing as marriage is going to be corrupted either way if you attend or not. Why lose your friends?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Very well written. Now I’m beginning to see what you guys are saying.

But just asking- if you ever get invited to a gay wedding how will you reject? I surely won’t be able to.
In such a situation wouldn’t it be better to attend a gay marriage OUTSIDE the church? Seeing as marriage is going to be corrupted either way if you attend or not. Why lose your friends?

I have been invited to 4 gay marriages. I have turned them down the same way I would turn anything down I did not want to attend. No friends were lost in that. I will say that since I have had kids and been serious about my faith I have less gay friends. No big blow ups or fights, just that many of the gay people I used to know and party with just don’t mesh well with the lifestyle I now have.

 

[aicirt]

Very well written. Now I’m beginning to see what you guys are saying.

But just asking- if you ever get invited to a gay wedding how will you reject? I surely won’t be able to.
In such a situation wouldn’t it be better to attend a gay marriage OUTSIDE the church? Seeing as marriage is going to be corrupted either way if you attend or not. Why lose your friends?

As a Catholic, and for many other Christians, you are to give up all for Christ. Of course, when you are young, that a “Well, of course I would.” You don’t see yourself in the above situation. You want to be kind. You want to have fun too and you don’t want to lose your eartlhy friends…but you don’t want to give scandal either or commit any other sin.

Actually, starting when you are a kid, you do make decisions to take the high road even at the cost of a friendship. You stay away from the kid who steals, the girlfriend who uses abortion as a form of birth control, you cut off relations with a person you could love or do love because that person is married, and maybe you’ve even removed yourself from a lucrative job because the money is dirty. But in this situation it is more difficult because you basically are making a public statement and that is what makes it hard. You are not just dealing with your own scruples, you have to confront the gay couple, politely send regrets, and then you may be judged by others forcing you to deal with many others. Very hard. Great sacrifice.