I morally object to saying the pledge of allegiance

[Whitacre_Girl]

You love heavy metal, but despise the pledge??? Today’s youth sure does fall far away from the tree…you have a lot of learning and growing up to do. I guess you have a problem with the 4th Degree of The Knights of Columbus, which I am very privileged and honored to be a member of. Maybe John Paul II was wrong when he called The KofC, “The strong right arm of The Church”.

Whenever I read things such as this from todays “youth”…it saddens me deeply.

Maybe you should consider the fact that the “youth” which you seem to despise so much, have had a much different experience. Anyone under the age of 40 has never known a time when abortion was considered the crime it is. It’s OUR generation that is being slaughtered by this “choice.” I think we have a right to feel angry an behalf of the family and friends we’ve never had the chance to meet. I personally have a sibling who is part of this mass homicide, and I was nearly a casualty of “choice” as well. We have never seen an America that values the life and DEFENDS the life of all its citizens. It’s no wonder so many of us are so disenfranchised.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Problem with the Germany example, you either supported the Nazi government or you died. At least in America, we can still continue to fight to end abortions and to stand up for what we know is right. At least we can picket abortion clinics and help counsel those in a pregnancy crisis that are considering abortions. We have the liberty to be pro-life and to say it proudly.

Agreed. That’s why I said that the situations were not the same, but the underlying principle of a nation which celebrates death is still there.

 

[PatriceA]

I don’t see it the same, that’s where we differ. There was no protesting in Germany by pro-lifers. I still beiieve in that there are many, many Americans that will continue to fight for the innocent babies and there are people in the government that are doing that to the best of their abilities. I do think we can make abortion illegal again, I refuse to believe all hope is lost in our nation.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I don’t see it the same, that’s where we differ. There was no protesting in Germany by pro-lifers. I still beiieve in that there are many, many Americans that will continue to fight for the innocent babies and there are people in the government that are doing that to the best of their abilities. I do think we can make abortion illegal again, I refuse to believe all hope is lost in our nation.

Nor do I. That is why I stated that I continue to pray, and act.

 

[PatriceA]

Well then our difference must be that you feel when you recite the Pledge, you are reinforcing the government you see supporting murder. When I recite the Pledge, I’m doing it for that part of our nation and government that I place my hope and trust in that will one day make abortion illegal again.

 

[Rascalking]

Although the situations are different, consider this: would you expect a Catholic living in Nazi Germany to feel an ardent love and patriotism for their nation? Nazi Germany did a lot of things for the german people. They pulled them out of the depression they were in, provided education, and social betterment programs, but does any of this overshadow their crimes? I think our Pope gives an example of a proper response to a nation steeped in the most serious crimes against the sanctity of life.

The situations are really so different that you cannot compare them. Nazi Germany was a society so out of control that comparing it to any culture nowadays often shows more on the person making the comparision (this does not apply in your case).

I understand your point however. I invite you to embrace the country, not to say “my country, right or wrong, my country” but “yeah, we’ve got issues, but God has blessed Americans with the greatest experiment in human history”.

God Bless

 

[dusza]

I’m not to sure that they’re missing the point.

I think if you don’t show gratitude for living in the greatest country in the world, the case can be made you shouldn’t accept anything from them.

“From them?” Who are you talking about? Who is “them” if not us? Every taxpayer has the same rights to benefits regardless of feelings of national pride.

I’m also making the point that “greatest country in the world” is a personal belief to majority of people in every nation. People are mostly patriotic, because the country is theirs. People in Poland for example will believe that the U.S. has the best political system in the world (so far), but still pledge allegiance to Poland. That’s patriotism, and it has nothing to do with the country’s so called greatness. IOW, patriotism is sentimental.

Having said that, let me point out that if for no other reason, patriotism is a good thing, because it keeps the concept of one world government at bay. Those who push for it are generally disdainful of the society they live in (communists, environmentalists, etc.)

 

[Rascalking]

I’m also making the point that “greatest country in the world” is a personal belief to majority of people in every nation. People are mostly patriotic, because the country is theirs. People in Poland for example will believe that the U.S. has the best political system in the world (so far), but still pledge allegiance to Poland. That’s patriotism, and it has nothing to do with the country’s so called greatness. IOW, patriotism is sentimental.

Having said that, let me point out that if for no other reason, patriotism is a good thing, because it keeps the concept of one world government at bay. Those who push for it are generally disdainful of the society they live in (communists, environmentalists, etc.)

Yes, that is patriotism.

However, when you say it’s personal to people of every nation, I disagree. How many people risk their life to get into other nations?

In America, you see people from every country living under one roof. Dont’ see that in many other countries.

 

[angelerulastiel]

I just can’t love a culture that kills its most innocent, no matter how much they do for me. It’s just too unbalanced. I equate it to living with a spouse who dotes on me continually and shows me kindness, and his friends do as well (this would be the troops, to whom I am eternally grateful!) but then he turns around and advises and allows people to murder one another. His love and kindness to me is completely overshadowed by his actions to others.

I don’t feel I am pledging allegiance to the culture. I am pledging to original ideals. Liberty and Justice for all includes the unborn to me.

 

[jpk1313]

Is this wrong?

I find the idea of saying the pledge of allegiance utterly repulsive; my allegiance is to God and only God, not a nation that has legalized the murder of children. Even if abortion was outlawed, I would still object to pledging allegiance to any particular nation at all.

Good for you!!! I to refuse to pledge loyalty to a corrupt and wicked govenment. Why? becuse it does not deserve my loyalty and has done nothing to earn it.

 

[Lutheranteach]

I admit that I leave out the “under God” when I say the pledge. Two reasons: I think it’s wrong to have in there. There is no religious requirements for being a good citizen or holding a public office. Second, it wasn’t in there to begin with. If the author of the pledge wanted it in there he would have put it in there.

 

[stevegravy]

Good for you!!! I to refuse to pledge loyalty to a corrupt and wicked govenment. Why? becuse it does not deserve my loyalty and has done nothing to earn it.

I wasn’t going to respond but now this peaked my interest. To me your post makes you sound dismissive and superior. You give no arguments to earlier posters. I have doubts you bothered to read any of them. Many gave excellent reasons to justify pledging so much so that failure to pledge seems quite immature and morally questionable. So lets review some of the arguments.

1. As a Christian our true home is heaven, our spiritual brotherhood is all people. Pledging allegiance to a country is only recognition that you are a member of a subset of that brotherhood. You commit to do those things required of you to maintain your status in that subset.
   2.The pledge does not usurp God, and doesn’t place any burden on you that supersedes the requirements of worship owed God.
   3.You are at all times, regardless of pledging required to obey all laws and orders given by civil authority that are licit and moral.
   4.The immorality, corruption, unjustness of the government’s policies and laws does not absolve you from your commitment to other people, especially those who may not believe in the Kingdom of God in the way you do. If anything it makes life harder because now you must preach to the un-believes to convert them to Kingdom. What I am referring to is the type of preaching St. Frances would approve of; only sometimes using words. That is the hardest preaching of all; actions that show you love everyone even sinners because, we are a church of sinners trying to be saints someday.

Sometimes I think this refusal to say the pledge is just a cheap trick for refusing to pick up our Christian obligations. The immature try to absolve themselves of any responsibility to change things. Makes life easy; all you have to do is sit on the sidelines and whine about how bad it all is.

I encourage you to think long and deeply on this. God bless you as you do.

 

[oldsinnner]

Is this wrong?

I find the idea of saying the pledge of allegiance utterly repulsive; my allegiance is to God and only God, not a nation that has legalized the murder of children. Even if abortion was outlawed, I would still object to pledging allegiance to any particular nation at all.

Repulsive is a mighty strong word. To me it indicates other ‘motives’. I would also venture to say, if America ever fell, the Catholic church and religion on the whole, would not be far behind. If religion did survive, you’d be getting out your Quran and forced to read. I wouldn’t be so quick to condemn the old USA. It’s been a force for far more good things, than bad.

Perhaps you should use the creed of the Marine Corps.

God
Country
Corps

One can have more than one allegiance.

 

[centurionguard]

This thread makes me contemplate what I respect and dislike about my own country Canada and the privilege that God has blessed me to live in the freedom of my country.
And I wonder how Jesus would ask me paying a respectful pledge of allegiance to my own country.

His answer;

Pledge an Allegiance of what belongs to Caesar to what belongs to Caesar.

Pledge an Allegiance to God to what belongs to God.

Whitacre_Girl; I certainly share your unsettling sadness about abortion, but it is up to genuine Catholics in both countries to pray for our leaders to change their hearts.
Rest assured those responsible who don’t care about abortion, will give answer before the throne of God.