I need a little help here

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I’ve recently really gotten into the apologetics realm and I was posed a question that really kinda stumped me so please give some insight

What is your take on the very bizarre passages in the Bible
Jonah living in the whale (Christ refers back to this)
Bears mauling 42 children
I mean 2 of every animal but I’m not too concerned about that
To just name 3 but there are a few more

Anyone have any take on these that seem a little impossible
 
Bears mauling 42 children
Here is the short passage about Elisha the prophet and then I will explain it.

He went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” And he turned around, and when he saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys. (2 Kings 2:23-24)

First we have to understand the context of where Elisha was and what his message was.

Solomon was king of the twelve tribes of Israel. While he was very wise, his wealth and power came at a price. He was a harsh ruler who levied heavy taxation on his subjects and forced people to labor in his service. When Solomon died his son Rehoboam took the throne. The people asked Rehoboam to lighten the burden but Rehoboam refused and threatened them with even harsher rule.

And the king answered the people harshly, and forsaking the counsel which the old men had given him, he spoke to them according to the counsel of the young men, saying, "My father made your yoke heavy, but I will add to your yoke; my father chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions." So the king did not hearken to the people; for it was a turn of affairs brought about by the LORD that he might fulfil his word, which the LORD spoke by Ahi’jah the Shi’lonite to Jerobo’am the son of Nebat. And when all Israel saw that the king did not hearken to them, the people answered the king,
“What portion have we in David?
We have no inheritance in the son of Jesse.
To your tents, O Israel!
Look now to your own house, David.”
So Israel departed to their tents.
(1 Kings 12:13-16)


The ten northern tribes fled. They literally seceded and formed their own nation - the nation of Israel. Only the two southern tribes of Judah and Benjamin stayed faithful to Rehoboam - this was the southern nation of Judah. This era in the history of the Jews is called the Divided Kingdom.

Judah was where Jerusalem was and where the Temple was. Since the northern nation of Israel didn’t have a temple, they set up not one, but two golden calves - one in the city of Dan and the other in the city of Bethel.

So the king took counsel, and made two calves of gold. And he said to the people, “You have gone up to Jerusalem long enough. Behold your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt.” And he set one in Bethel, and the other he put in Dan. And this thing became a sin, for the people went to the one at Bethel and to the other as far as Dan. (1 Kings 12:28-30)

The fact that there were two golden calves shows that they were twice as bad as those who had worshipped the one golden calf at Mt. Sinai. They then set up all kinds of pagan temples, engaged in child sacrifice, bestiality, incest, etc.

This is the context. Elisha was a prophet who was sent from Judah to preach repentance to the ten apostate northern tribes of the nation of Israel. He was a man sent by God to bring a message of repentance right into the heart of pagan worship in the city of Bethel. And God’s message was clear. God had been crystal clear way back in the book of Leviticus.

Then if you walk contrary to me, and will not hearken to me, I will bring more plagues upon you, sevenfold as many as your sins. And I will let loose the wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number, so that your ways shall become desolate. (Leviticus 26:21-22)

God promised to destroy their children if they did not obey his commandments, and that is exactly what happened. Elisha was a man of the God of the Hebrew people. He was bald because he had taken a nazarite vow and so had shaved his head. This clearly identified him as a man of God. The children represent the ten northern tribes - apostates who rejected God’s message over and over and over.

God had warned them previously that this would happen, that wild beasts would rip their children apart. This would have been headline news, yet they still didn’t repent.

-Tim-
 
I’ve recently really gotten into the apologetics realm and I was posed a question that really kinda stumped me so please give some insight

What is your take on the very bizarre passages in the Bible
Jonah living in the whale (Christ refers back to this)
Bears mauling 42 children
I mean 2 of every animal but I’m not too concerned about that
To just name 3 but there are a few more

Anyone have any take on these that seem a little impossible
Wait a second… Do you mean you have taken it upon yourself to defend a literal interpretation of the Bible? Why? There might be better ways to study the Bible, and better ways to use your time and energy.

If I might make a suggestion, begin by reading what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about it (look up paragraphs 101-141). It wouldn’t be easy to condense that to a few lines, but I’ll try: The Bible reveals the truth about God’s covenant with us his people, and God’s plan of salvation for us. It is not a science book, and I don’t think it is accurate as a history book, but it tells us things we need to know about our relationship with God and our fellow men.

Peace and Blessings to you.
 
Re: Jonah.

Although the account of Jonah works just fine as a morality tale, I for one have no problem with it as literal.

Whales breathe; therefore there is air inside their systems. Human beings getting swallowed by these beasts and subsequently being regurgitated have been attested during the 1800s.

That there would be one waiting for Jonah when he was hurled from a ship is not a problem; God made it happen, just as in the Gospel He caused a fish to be caught having a coin in its mouth.

ICXC NIKA
 
Wait a second… Do you mean you have taken it upon yourself to defend a literal interpretation of the Bible? Why? There might be better ways to study the Bible, and better ways to use your time and energy.

If I might make a suggestion, begin by reading what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about it (look up paragraphs 101-141). It wouldn’t be easy to condense that to a few lines, but I’ll try: The Bible reveals the truth about God’s covenant with us his people, and God’s plan of salvation for us. It is not a science book, and I don’t think it is accurate as a history book, but it tells us things we need to know about our relationship with God and our fellow men.

Peace and Blessings to you.
Beryllos, what is wrong with someone attempting to explain the Bible literally? Why speak against doing so? I find that odd.

Jesus Christ himself believed and spoke of the Jonah account. He didn’t say it was allegory or a story and I think he would have not used it to explain what was going to happen to him in the future. He spoke of it as it was real event. So was The Lord wrong to believe in it? IF HE BELIEVES it was real, why should we rip apart God’s word to make it fit society’s desired standards (which is unbelief) ? I frankly find that terribly dangerous as saying things are allegory completely undermines the whole Biblical account from start to finish. If its not true, then the whole thing is baloney. Believing parts are not literal because they are hard to believe is basically being, at best, a lukewarm believer. Once you are that, you will contort any of God’s Word to fit your itching ears.
 
The Bible reveals the truth about God’s covenant with us his people, and God’s plan of salvation for us. It is not a science book, and I don’t think it is accurate as a history book
Let’s refine your claim a bit. It’s not that the Bible isn’t “accurate as a history book,” it’s that, in some places, it’s not attempting to write a literal history, per se. In others, it is. But, even in those places in which the human authors of Scripture are attempting to write history, the true purpose of Scripture – God’s self-revelation to mankind – operates on its own level, and meets God’s purpose. Even if there’s an issue with historicity, due to the failings of the human authors of Scripture, God’s plan of revealing Himself through Scripture is in operation and is successful. 😉
 
I believe the Bible is very historically factual, as no archaeological find has ever proven the Bible wrong as far as historical people and places (that I know of) and I wasn’t trying to explain the literal meaning of the story of Elisha cause honestly it just wouldn’t make much sense but Tim explained it perfectly so I was just looking for someone more familiar with it than I am to help me along. People who don’t believe in Christianity/Bible seem to take everything literally in it so I came to the forums for some answers!

Thanks for Anne for the backing though 🙂
 
… I frankly find that terribly dangerous as saying things are allegory completely undermines the whole Biblical account from start to finish. If its not true, then the whole thing is baloney…
I know there are many who believe the Bible is that fragile. They say that if we doubt the historical accuracy of one part (6-day Creation?), then the whole thing becomes questionable, and therefore faith demands that we do not ask questions, at least not the wrong sort of questions. I don’t agree. I am saying the Bible contains truths about God. It was written by human authors as inspired by the Holy Spirit. The human authors expressed these truths in human ways.
CCC 105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture. “The divinely revealed realities, which are contained and presented in the text of Sacred Scripture, have been written down under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.” …

106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books. “To compose the sacred books, God chose certain men who, all the while he employed them in this task, made full use of their own faculties and powers so that, though he acted in them and by them, it was as true authors that they consigned to writing whatever he wanted written, and no more.”

109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way. To interpret Scripture correctly, the reader must be attentive to what the human authors truly wanted to affirm and to what God wanted to reveal to us by their words.

110 In order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking, and narrating then current. “For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression.”
 
Let’s refine your claim a bit. It’s not that the Bible isn’t “accurate as a history book,” it’s that, in some places, it’s not attempting to write a literal history, per se. In others, it is. But, even in those places in which the human authors of Scripture are attempting to write history, the true purpose of Scripture – God’s self-revelation to mankind – operates on its own level, and meets God’s purpose. Even if there’s an issue with historicity, due to the failings of the human authors of Scripture, God’s plan of revealing Himself through Scripture is in operation and is successful. 😉
I agree with that.
 
(…)
He was bald because he had taken a nazarite vow and so had shaved his head. This clearly identified him as a man of God. (…)

-Tim-
Many thanks Tim, this is really instructive but I just would like you to tell me where it is said that he had taken a nazarite vow and therefore had shaved his head, I supossed because he had finished the time of the vow. Where?? Please give me the quote…👍 Could not his boldness just be old age:confused: That is why I want to see the quote.

Many thanks again,
Gloria

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Many thanks Tim, this is really instructive but I just would like you to tell me where it is said that he had taken a nazarite vow and therefore had shaved his head, I supossed because he had finished the time of the vow. Where?? Please give me the quote…👍 Could not his boldness just be old age:confused: That is why I want to see the quote.

Many thanks again,
Gloria

.
Always with wanting the proof from the Bible. :rolleyes: You are a woman after my heart. 🙂

All I can offer is that if you follow the story, Elisha could not have been more than 20 years old at the time of the incident with the two bears. He was not old and so likely not bald naturally. He could have been, but it was not likely.

We also know that Nazarites often shaved before their vow and then let their hair grow during the period of dedication. This way they would start with as little hair as possible and let it all grow out. If they became ritually impure they would shave again and start again.

-Tim-
 
I mean 2 of every animal but I’m not too concerned about that
Noah actually took seven mating pairs, 14 of each type of clean animal, and 14 of each type of bird. Only one mating pair was taken from the animals listed as unclean in the law of Moses.

***Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate; and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive upon the face of all the earth. *(Genesis 7:2-3)

-Tim-
 
I believe the Bible is very historically factual, as no archaeological find has ever proven the Bible wrong as far as historical people and places (that I know of) and I wasn’t trying to explain the literal meaning of the story of Elisha cause honestly it just wouldn’t make much sense but Tim explained it perfectly so I was just looking for someone more familiar with it than I am to help me along. People who don’t believe in Christianity/Bible seem to take everything literally in it so I came to the forums for some answers!

Thanks for Anne for the backing though 🙂
Something people can forget is that the Bible is NOT one book. It is a collection of 73 books, letters, songs, poems, etc. They are each written in their own style, with a particular message, particular audience, and their own manner of conveying truth.
 
I mean 2 of every animal but I’m not too concerned about that
This command to include some of every animal didn’t mean some of every animal on the planet. I think the most likely explanation is that the flood was a HUGE flood, but not of the entire planet earth. When they say it covered the whole world, it is describing the entire vast swath of land around them for hundreds of miles.

Some have postulated that it was a flood near the Black Sea, where the heavy rains finally loosened the land between the Mediterranean Sea and Black Sea, and when this fell, the Mediterranean flooded into the Black Sea. Those living around the Black Sea would have experienced it as a flood of the whole earth.

If so, then the animals would have been all the animals around them, especially the animals they use for farming and living. So a much smaller, more manageable number for the Ark.
 
Always with wanting the proof from the Bible. :rolleyes: You are a woman after my heart. 🙂

All I can offer is that if you follow the story, Elisha could not have been more than 20 years old at the time of the incident with the two bears. He was not old and so likely not bald naturally. He could have been, but it was not likely.

We also know that Nazarites often shaved before their vow and then let their hair grow during the period of dedication. This way they would start with as little hair as possible and let it all grow out. If they became ritually impure they would shave again and start again.

-Tim-
:hmmm:

😃
.
 
=AntB;11559211]I’ve recently really gotten into the apologetics realm and I was posed a question that really kinda stumped me so please give some insight
What is your take on the very bizarre passages in the Bible
Jonah living in the whale (Christ refers back to this)
Bears mauling 42 children
I mean 2 of every animal but I’m not too concerned about that
To just name 3 but there are a few more
Anyone have any take on these that seem a little impossible
My friend, INVEST in yourself and your bible knowledge:thumbsup:

catholic-resources.org/Bible/Genres.htm
 
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