I need to know as much as I can about the Church of Christ

[Faithdancer]

There is the United Church of Christ that’s been around for a long time, not a cult.

There is the Church of Christ and I’m not sure how long they’ve been around, but they aren’t new. The COC is not a cult. Their ministers are graduates of bible colleges. I was once engagegd to a COC minister and he got his education at CBC (Cincinnati Bible College)
I believe there is a bible college in Missouri that many of their ministers go to. (Ozark Bible College I think)
They baptize by immersion. They think they are the only ones going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell.

Then of course, there are small churches that take all kinds of names and some are good and some are not good.

If this were my relative I would be getting her evaluated as to her cognitive abilities and status so that you can protect her and her estate. But you need to do it fairly quickly so that they can’t say that she was fine when she signed her estate away and is just now declining. I’d start with the doctor who’s been treating her for some time.

I’ve read through several of the posts on this thread and this is one of the more level-headed ones. I agree, the new will this woman signed is invalid. I also agree that the mainstream Churches of Christ denomination- though having some unique doctrinal views, is not in any way a shady organization or a cult in the negative sense. I am currently taking a class on Homiletics from a COC Bible college and the quality and organization are quite good. Neither have I been pressured in any way to “convert” to COC. However, there can obviously be rare unscrupulous individuals within any church, no matter how long it’s been around or how many members it has.

 

[Faithdancer]

International Pentecostal Church of Christ
Pentecostal Church of Christ
International Church of Christ
Boston Church of Christ
Reorganized LDS forgot name change.

These above groups have been rumored in the past of doing the type of thing you describe. Just google each group to learn more about them.

Contact a lawyer first, then a priest and then “cult experts” to find watch groups.

Thanks for the list. None of the churches you mention are part of the worldwide Churches of Christ or are affiliated with Harding University, Abilene Christian, Pepperdine, etc. which are reputable schools and are affiliated with or operated by the Churches of Christ. It’s confusing. I would not be as surprised if the woman in this case was victimized by one of these similar-sounding groups.

 

[Faithdancer]

This is ridiculous. Someone is asking what they believe because they need information about that religion. Go up and read the directions about how to have an interfaith discussion. Thank you.

 

[Faithdancer]

I know the Catholic church recognizes submersion as a valid form of baptism. When I converted the CC did not rebaptise me. When my yia yia wanted to join the cofC she had to be baptized anew because the cofC would not accept her submersion in a Baptist church.

If you are interested in in the difference between submersion and immersion (they are different) look in the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. That is where I got the word.

Interesting points, Andrew. And there may be some regional and individual differences even within the (mainstream) Churches of Christ. I’m pretty sure there are some in California who recognize submersion baptism in other denominations and do not require another submersion baptism upon joining COC. They would not recognize infant baptism, however, but they are not alone in that- many Protestant churches do not recognize infant baptism on the basis that there is no free will or consent involved on the part of the one being baptized. I was re-baptized in a Disciples of Christ church at, I believe, age 12, because the DOC does not recognize infant baptism. Parenthetically, the DOC is pretty much mainline Protestant.

PS after reading the other post to which you were responding, I think that where that poster used the term “immersion” he or she meant “submersion.” It’s a common mash-up, obviously. I’ve just always figured when somebody said “immersion” they meant “submersion” which is indeed “all the way under.” The Orthdox do, of course, practice “submersion,” though it is infant submersion which again would not be acceptable in many Protestant churches because of the free will/ consent issue.

 

[believerdoc]

Sorry. I thought I made it clear that I was in the A CAPELLA part of the so called “churches of Christ”, and what I said is very true for that sect. It is big in Tennesee, Kentucky the rest of the south and over the borders of New Mexico. As I said they allow no musical instruments is worship and have no ordination or What they do have are called Bible colleges where they teach men only to preach. But those colleges are not required. If one wants to preach they only need to find Elders who will hire them.
They have no holidays at all because they are not commanded in the bible. In fact nothing is allowed in their churches unless it is commanded in the bible or can be
inferred from the bible. They practically worship the bible as a paper and ink idol. I know the Catholic church recognizes submersion as a valid form of baptism. When I converted the CC did not rebaptise me. When my yia yia wanted to join the cofC she had to be baptized anew because the cofC would not accept her submersion in a Baptist church.

What I think is that you are in a different body going by the same name. Probably Churches of Christ and independent Christian churches. As I said there are a number of groups that use the exact same name but have different beliefs.

If you are interested in in the difference between submersion and immersion (they are different) look in the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. That is where I got the word.

Actually I am a Deacon in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). I will check that out because in all of my studies I have never encountered the word submersion.

 

[Faithdancer]

Actually I am a Deacon in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). I will check that out because in all of my studies I have never encountered the word submersion.

I haven’t seen it either but think the term immersion is used nearly exclusively in reference to believer baptism (i.e baptism at an age of understanding). It is used synonymously with submersion, meaning the person goes entirely or nearly entirely under the water. But it seems like hair splitting to me. What about baptism in a horse trough? Is that invalid because maybe an elbow is stickin’ up out of the water? Don’t think so, but here’s a clip of a full grown man’s baptism (his is later in the clip, at about 6:50).
youtube.com/watch?v=sDC1Uzp97Ds

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I haven’t seen it either but think the term immersion is used nearly exclusively in reference to believer baptism (i.e baptism at an age of understanding). It is used synonymously with submersion, meaning the person goes entirely or nearly entirely under the water. But it seems like hair splitting to me. What about baptism in a horse trough? Is that invalid because maybe an elbow is stickin’ up out of the water? Don’t think so, but here’s a clip of a full grown man’s baptism (his is later in the clip, at about 6:50).
youtube.com/watch?v=sDC1Uzp97Ds

Did the horse make a profession of faith?

 

[andrewstx]

I haven’t seen it either but think the term immersion is used nearly exclusively in reference to believer baptism (i.e baptism at an age of understanding). It is used synonymously with submersion, meaning the person goes entirely or nearly entirely under the water. But it seems like hair splitting to me. What about baptism in a horse trough? Is that invalid because maybe an elbow is stickin’ up out of the water? Don’t think so, but here’s a clip of a full grown man’s baptism (his is later in the clip, at about 6:50).
youtube.com/watch?v=sDC1Uzp97Ds

When I became Orthodox I was submersed in a horse trough outdoors at a Russian Orthodox church outside Russia. But most Orthodox churches do not require rebaptism, they accept converts through Chrismation (Confirmation) when the person has already been baptized.

I remember the churches of Christ anagram it is this: CENI

To be done in the csofC everything must meet specific requirements, it must be:

Commanded in the bible.
Or there must be a clear Example of it the bible.
Or there must be a Neccesary Inference of it in the bible.

The Southern a capella churches of Christ are very strict about all of these things.

They say that they are not Catholic, not Protestant, and they are only Christians.
The huge difference between the Disciples and the cofC is that the Disciples say they are Christians only. And the csofC claim to be the only Christians.
The cofC call their members Christians, while members of other Churches are either non-Christians or “members of denominations”.

Churches of Christ people claim to not belong to a denomination, just the only church Christ has. Apparently they are not aware of Orthodox Christians or they just lump us in as Catholics.

 

[andrewstx]

The churches of Christ have several instititutions of higher learning. Among them are Pepperdine in Malibu CA. Abilene Christian University in Abilene TX. Lubbock Christian University in Lubbock TX, and Harding University in Arkansas. As a cofC teen I always wanted to go to Pepperdine but cost prevented it.

Faithdancer, do you attend Pepperdine? Are there Cowboy churches of Christ?

BTW my name is Gary and I live in the country near AndrewS Texas.

 

[Faithdancer]

The churches of Christ have several instititutions of higher learning. Among them are Pepperdine in Malibu CA. Abilene Christian University in Abilene TX. Lubbock Christian University in Lubbock TX, and Harding University in Arkansas. As a cofC teen I always wanted to go to Pepperdine but cost prevented it.

Faithdancer, do you attend Pepperdine? Are there Cowboy churches of Christ?

BTW my name is Gary and I live in the country near AndrewS Texas.

No Andrew, I don’t attend Pepperdine but I’ve seen it, it’s in a beautiful setting near Malibu. The Homiletics course I’m taking is through Sunset International Bible Institute which is in Texas. I pretty much take all my courses online these days. I’m also taking a course through a Catholic college and seminary on the Early Church Fathers; that’s like my 11th or 12th grad course through them. I’m debating whether or not to do the thesis.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there are Cowboy Churches of Christ. I’m non-denominational myself; I strive to attend church every week but attend different churches. I find that they all pretty much have the same format to their worship service, interestingly enough. Most recently I attended a Grace Brethren Church and liked the music and the sermon. They are conservative, which is ok by me! I think they are descendants of the Mennonite church originally or something, kind of Anabaptist. Of course, back in the day, everybody picked on the Anabaptists, Catholics and other Protestants alike!

btw there is a rodeo in a couple of weeks in our area, and there will be a Cowboy Church service there. I’m planning to attend, it will be my first and it should be informative. I know that down your way there are preachers who don’t have a regular church but travel the rodeo circuit. I wonder if there are any Catholic priests who do that?

 

[andrewstx]

No Andrew, I don’t attend Pepperdine but I’ve seen it, it’s in a beautiful setting near Malibu. The Homiletics course I’m taking is through Sunset International Bible Institute which is in Texas. I pretty much take all my courses online these days. I’m also taking a course through a Catholic college and seminary on the Early Church Fathers; that’s like my 11th or 12th grad course through them. I’m debating whether or not to do the thesis.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there are Cowboy Churches of Christ. I’m non-denominational myself; I strive to attend church every week but attend different churches. I find that they all pretty much have the same format to their worship service, interestingly enough. Most recently I attended a Grace Brethren Church and liked the music and the sermon. They are conservative, which is ok by me! I think they are descendants of the Mennonite church originally or something, kind of Anabaptist. Of course, back in the day, everybody picked on the Anabaptists, Catholics and other Protestants alike!

btw there is a rodeo in a couple of weeks in our area, and there will be a Cowboy Church service there. I’m planning to attend, it will be my first and it should be informative. I know that down your way there are preachers who don’t have a regular church but travel the rodeo circuit. I wonder if there are any Catholic priests who do that?

Where to begin. I don’t know of any circuit ridin’ Catholic priests, but I doubt they exist since the Catholic church has a severe clergy shortage. I know Sunset very well. It’s brick and mortar campus is just 90 miles away from me in Lubbock TX connected to the
Sunset church of Christ on Broadway street. I have driven past it dozens of times.

I had a bad stroke before I was 50, but before that I was a team ropin’ header. There is a cowboy church maybe 3 miles away that is Baptist. I would like to go once, but it would be a big change in culture for an Eastern Orthodox. Unlike Catholics we are not required to be at Mass every Sunday.

BTW, my name’s Gary, not Andrew.

 

[Traverse]

Lots of posts in this thread already. I didn’t read them all, but I am a current member of a Church of Christ congregation so if you want to field me any questions please do so.

Early posts in this thread were correct. Some churches call themselves “church of christ” but behave quite contrary to one. Baptism is done by full immersion for the remission of sins and in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If this group baptized someone without full immersion in a hospital then chance are you’re dealing with a CoC in name only.

Some posts in here are inaccurate. One in particular was the notion that CoC thinks they are the only christians. CoC isn’t even an organization and we understand the the name of a specific church isn’t really relevant, but that their practices are. By their fruits you will know them. CoC churches tend to have a decent relationship with other CoC churches because of traveling preachers or members going on vacation and visiting other congregations, but we wouldn’t dispute that people meeting in a home with no name on the building can be just as correct with their teachings. Or even a church building with a sign that just says “Christians meet here.” The name isn’t really relevant, though Church of Christ is chosen by many because of the biblical passage that says “the churches of Christ greet you.”

I can’t vouch for this group if they baptized someone under duress in an invalid way. I don’t know them and I also don’t know where this took place so I could see if there was a congregation in the area I knew.

 

[Faithdancer]

Where to begin. I don’t know of any circuit ridin’ Catholic priests, but I doubt they exist since the Catholic church has a severe clergy shortage. I know Sunset very well. It’s brick and mortar campus is just 90 miles away from me in Lubbock TX connected to the
Sunset church of Christ on Broadway street. I have driven past it dozens of times.

I had a bad stroke before I was 50, but before that I was a team ropin’ header. There is a cowboy church maybe 3 miles away that is Baptist. I would like to go once, but it would be a big change in culture for an Eastern Orthodox. Unlike Catholics we are not required to be at Mass every Sunday.

BTW, my name’s Gary, not Andrew.

Sorry to hear about the accident, Gary, but you’re still sharp as a tack, obviously, and may God bless and preserve you for many more years.

That would be a bit of a change for an EO to attend Cowboy Church. Then again, considering your experience…once a cowboy, always a cowboy!
Peace!

p.s. the instructor for the Sunset Homiletics course is Brother Ed Wharton. I could listen to him forever, he is like the central casting model of a southern preacher and I love the twang as well as the sincere love for Christ that shines through.

 

[Faithdancer]

Lots of posts in this thread already. I didn’t read them all, but I am a current member of a Church of Christ congregation so if you want to field me any questions please do so.

Early posts in this thread were correct. Some churches call themselves “church of christ” but behave quite contrary to one. Baptism is done by full immersion for the remission of sins and in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If this group baptized someone without full immersion in a hospital then chance are you’re dealing with a CoC in name only.

Some posts in here are inaccurate. One in particular was the notion that CoC thinks they are the only christians. CoC isn’t even an organization and we understand the the name of a specific church isn’t really relevant, but that their practices are. By their fruits you will know them. CoC churches tend to have a decent relationship with other CoC churches because of traveling preachers or members going on vacation and visiting other congregations, but we wouldn’t dispute that people meeting in a home with no name on the building can be just as correct with their teachings. Or even a church building with a sign that just says “Christians meet here.” The name isn’t really relevant, though Church of Christ is chosen by many because of the biblical passage that says “the churches of Christ greet you.”

I can’t vouch for this group if they baptized someone under duress in an invalid way. I don’t know them and I also don’t know where this took place so I could see if there was a congregation in the area I knew.

It’s great to read your perspective, Traverse. I have to admit I’ve only been to a C of C service once, and it was an informal Sunday evening service at that, more of a prayer meeting. But I enjoyed it and was impressed by the Bible literacy of those present- wow! In fact I think that visit, which was going on a year ago now, propelled me to better educate myself in the Old Testament. My Scripture courses through Holy Apostles College and Seminary, where I’ve concentrated in Sacred Scripture, have all been in the New Testament books. Seeing how well versed the Church of Christ members were in the OT that evening really got me thinking.
God bless, brother!

 

[StrawberryJam]

I’ve been busy working on untangling this situation and took the advice given to contact the police. There is an investigation, I am told I can not discuss.
I contacted my priest, and he was so wonderful and helpful and kind, knew the catholic priest she had been talking to after Mass, and got us together to talk.
He also helped me with getting in touch with an attorney with court experience in this matter. I hired him after interviewing him. Thank you all for your help in getting me more focused. This guy is not working with the church he claims to be a member of.
I patiently await the day I will see him in court (he was on probation for another crime when this happened)
He told her that the baptism he did in the hospital was an emergency baptism, and that she would need to do it again after she was released.
She won’t be getting baptised with this man ever.
I hold no ill will toward any christian affiliation with any name that is remotely close to the one this man claimed to be a member of. I’m just hoping this won’t happen to anyone else at least with this individual.

 

[solarguy17]

I’ve been busy working on untangling this situation and took the advice given to contact the police. There is an investigation, I am told I can not discuss.
I contacted my priest, and he was so wonderful and helpful and kind, knew the catholic priest she had been talking to after Mass, and got us together to talk.
He also helped me with getting in touch with an attorney with court experience in this matter. I hired him after interviewing him. Thank you all for your help in getting me more focused. This guy is not working with the church he claims to be a member of.
I patiently await the day I will see him in court (he was on probation for another crime when this happened)
He told her that the baptism he did in the hospital was an emergency baptism, and that she would need to do it again after she was released.
She won’t be getting baptised with this man ever.
I hold no ill will toward any christian affiliation with any name that is remotely close to the one this man claimed to be a member of. I’m just hoping this won’t happen to anyone else at least with this individual.

I know you may not be able to mention much more then you already did. But I’m just curious for a clarification.
Is your relative Catholic? not just going as a frequent guest?
The guy that did the emergency baptism, he is NOT a member of the church of Christ he claimed to be from? If that true, you should also contact one of the elders of that church, or the preacher (check for a website, or show up around 11:50AM on a Sunday) and get them to verify that man isn’t a member of their church or speaking for them. This might be very important if you take the guy to court.
Also, remember if he truly convinced your relative that baptized her and such, she might not be willing to testify against him. You will need a solid case and evidence to get the court to over turn the new will that designates the church as the sole recipient of the estate.
Good luck.
I am sad that someone is being taken advantage of and will pray for a proper resolution to this issue.

Also, I am a member of a church of Christ. And I can assure you that none of they specific churches I have been a member of have ever acted that way and that wouldn’t be tolerate one bit.

 

[GraceSofia]

I’ve been busy working on untangling this situation and took the advice given to contact the police. There is an investigation . . .
I’m just hoping this won’t happen to anyone else at least with this individual.

Good. Thanks for the update. Glad to hear the police took it seriously and that you are getting legal help. Prayers that it will all be sorted.

 

[Catholic1954]

I’ve been busy working on untangling this situation and took the advice given to contact the police. There is an investigation, I am told I can not discuss.
I contacted my priest, and he was so wonderful and helpful and kind, knew the catholic priest she had been talking to after Mass, and got us together to talk.
He also helped me with getting in touch with an attorney with court experience in this matter. I hired him after interviewing him. Thank you all for your help in getting me more focused. This guy is not working with the church he claims to be a member of.
I patiently await the day I will see him in court (he was on probation for another crime when this happened)
He told her that the baptism he did in the hospital was an emergency baptism, and that she would need to do it again after she was released.
She won’t be getting baptised with this man ever.
I hold no ill will toward any christian affiliation with any name that is remotely close to the one this man claimed to be a member of. I’m just hoping this won’t happen to anyone else at least with this individual.

Your relative is very fortunate to have you looking out for her. I hope it goes well in court. :knight2:

 

[Missian_Alyssa]

Amen