A
arther1045
Guest
I received this Email today. I did not slander this person, I suggested that they study up on their history when they said the CC added 7 books to the bible in the 1500s. I don’t like to argue religion often, what do you people think of this. This started on a site when this poster was bashing th CC and especially the Pope.
And no i am not a troll using this to start a fight with you. I am a Catholic just not really good at defended the Catholic Faith.
Okay, let’s look at the scripture you brought up. 2 Thess. 2, “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings [or traditions] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.”
Firstly, the word used has two meanings, “teachings” or “traditions”. Either way, it doesn’t particularly matter to me. Paul is telling them to hold fast to the teachings that he taught them! It’s ridiculous that you somehow equate Paul’s biblical teachings to Catholic tradition. If you look at the context, Paul is telling them to continue doing what he taught them to do.
Now 1 Tim 3:15. Firstly, let’s quote it in context. Starting in verse 14, “Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.”
Yes, the church is the pillar of truth. The CC? Not quite. They are the keepers of that truth. WHAT truth? The truth the PAUL brought them, as the Word of God! Listen to what he says. “Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions”. He’s saying that if I don’t make it there, listen to the church based on the letter I’m writing you. Even in GIVING the church that title, Paul is still referring his truth back to the letter he is writing! That is, a true church is BIBLICALLY BASED. The church is the body of Christ, and the keeper of truth. The idea that this verse refers to a specific denomination (namely the CC) is ridiculous and unfounded.
You’re quick to insult me, call me a liar, and slander me on my points. Yet you haven’t proven me wrong, you just say “YOU’RE WRONG” and you move on, simply ignoring my points. Do a word study on “tradition”. Don’t take my word for it. Certainly it depends on the translation, but it’s no mystery that the Bible overall casts a negative light on the traditions of men. A huge chunk of Jesus’ ministry was DEDICATED to yelling at religious leaders who added to the OT scriptures! It’s baffling that Catholics don’t see the modern day correlation.
I never said, “all truth has to be in the Bible”. So I make no effort to defend that point. All truth is NOT in the Bible. That would be ludicrous. The book would be enormous. However, everything in the Bible is true and fully sufficient for our salvation.
Finally, if the Roman Catholic wants to say we need sacred tradition in order to be properly equipped doctrinally and spiritually, then he must establish that the Bible is not sufficient for teaching, or proof, correction, and training in righteousness – and doctrinal issues. The burden of proof is on you. 2 Tim. 3:16-17, “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.”
Clearly the Bible is sufficient to equip us for EVERY good work. It is sufficient to train us in righteousness. It is sufficient to teach. It is sufficient to correct and rebuke. It is sufficient that every man may be adequate. Paul, and Jesus for that matter, never once lean on tradition to be sufficient. They both ALWAYS used scripture.
Find me, sir, your passages supporting the idea that tradition is the second pillar of our faith, somehow equal with scripture.
You see, once you accept tradition as equal OR greater than scripture, you have unlocked the ability to add anything you like to God’s Word. That is absolute heresy.
I know you’re upset, understandably so I suppose. But I urge you to meditate on 1 Peter 3:15 while talking to me. “But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.”
I pray for the Holy
And no i am not a troll using this to start a fight with you. I am a Catholic just not really good at defended the Catholic Faith.
Okay, let’s look at the scripture you brought up. 2 Thess. 2, “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings [or traditions] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.”
Firstly, the word used has two meanings, “teachings” or “traditions”. Either way, it doesn’t particularly matter to me. Paul is telling them to hold fast to the teachings that he taught them! It’s ridiculous that you somehow equate Paul’s biblical teachings to Catholic tradition. If you look at the context, Paul is telling them to continue doing what he taught them to do.
Now 1 Tim 3:15. Firstly, let’s quote it in context. Starting in verse 14, “Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.”
Yes, the church is the pillar of truth. The CC? Not quite. They are the keepers of that truth. WHAT truth? The truth the PAUL brought them, as the Word of God! Listen to what he says. “Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions”. He’s saying that if I don’t make it there, listen to the church based on the letter I’m writing you. Even in GIVING the church that title, Paul is still referring his truth back to the letter he is writing! That is, a true church is BIBLICALLY BASED. The church is the body of Christ, and the keeper of truth. The idea that this verse refers to a specific denomination (namely the CC) is ridiculous and unfounded.
You’re quick to insult me, call me a liar, and slander me on my points. Yet you haven’t proven me wrong, you just say “YOU’RE WRONG” and you move on, simply ignoring my points. Do a word study on “tradition”. Don’t take my word for it. Certainly it depends on the translation, but it’s no mystery that the Bible overall casts a negative light on the traditions of men. A huge chunk of Jesus’ ministry was DEDICATED to yelling at religious leaders who added to the OT scriptures! It’s baffling that Catholics don’t see the modern day correlation.
I never said, “all truth has to be in the Bible”. So I make no effort to defend that point. All truth is NOT in the Bible. That would be ludicrous. The book would be enormous. However, everything in the Bible is true and fully sufficient for our salvation.
Finally, if the Roman Catholic wants to say we need sacred tradition in order to be properly equipped doctrinally and spiritually, then he must establish that the Bible is not sufficient for teaching, or proof, correction, and training in righteousness – and doctrinal issues. The burden of proof is on you. 2 Tim. 3:16-17, “All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.”
Clearly the Bible is sufficient to equip us for EVERY good work. It is sufficient to train us in righteousness. It is sufficient to teach. It is sufficient to correct and rebuke. It is sufficient that every man may be adequate. Paul, and Jesus for that matter, never once lean on tradition to be sufficient. They both ALWAYS used scripture.
Find me, sir, your passages supporting the idea that tradition is the second pillar of our faith, somehow equal with scripture.
You see, once you accept tradition as equal OR greater than scripture, you have unlocked the ability to add anything you like to God’s Word. That is absolute heresy.
I know you’re upset, understandably so I suppose. But I urge you to meditate on 1 Peter 3:15 while talking to me. “But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.”
I pray for the Holy
), which contains all the books except the ones the Orthodox claim as canon. This issue of the canonicity of the DC’s was debated long before Luther.