I spent 22 years in a cult; ask me anything

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Wannano said:
if you see Catholicism as having any of these qualifications in any way?
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I can, but only if an individual chooses to interpret them that way. I don’t believe the Catholic Church is intentional in the ways the WCG was. However, individual clergy may and have abused their positions. It was true in the WCG as well. Some pastors were much more open minded than others.
 
ShowersofRoses said:
I can’t help but chuckle a little at your poor family members
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🙂 It was not really all that much of a bone of contention. Occasional remarks were never repeated. They were respectful for the most part, but privately I knew they thought I was nuts and that I was often the subject of concerned conversations. lol

One older brother converted to Catholicism back in the early 80’s and my oldest sister married a Catholic so my current state of affairs has not drawn much attention. Among my evangelical friends, however, there have been cautionary tales meant to open my eyes. On a private forum I host elsewhere, just for these folks I might add, I have sometimes found links posted that show how awful the Big Bad Catholic Church has been. I thank them for their concern and gently point out where the linked articles and videos are mistaken, or long out of date.

On the whole, since I love talking about Christianity in general, and Catholicism in particular, I have found that I am much more well informed on both topics than the majority of Protestants I run across. There are those who are very open to seeing Catholicism in a new light, and those who are deeply biased and will never see anything other than the Whore of Babylon when it comes to “Romish” practices. The latter are, thankfully, in a tiny minority. 🙂
 
Are there others who wish to get out, but don’t think they can?
 
Greenfields said:
Do you miss that sense of belonging you may have found there?

Have you found it within the Catholic faith (like here also hopefully 🙂 )
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To be honest, I don’t miss a single thing about the WCG. I was a very private and withdrawn person when I entered their ranks, became the very opposite over time to where I became a skilled public speaker, led hymns and prayers, and was voted by the congregation, along with my wife, to a “Family Council” toward the end of our tenure. But that extrovert-like behaviour was never the real me. Once I was done with it all I could look back and realize how much I dreaded the occasions when it was my turn in the leadership rotation, and how much I disliked the holy day obligations and that annual convention. I slowly slipped back into my shell and safety zone and feel very comfortable with that today.

To your second question, yes I have found what I need within the Catholic Church, but I should add something. I remain an extremely private person who is not looking for close personal contact with people. In four years of attending Mass I have yet to tell anyone my name, or stay for any sort of fellowship time after the service. This is actually no different from my time at work. I take my tea and lunch breaks alone, never attend staff parties or barbecues, and do not ‘go for drinks’ after work. I’ve worked at the same place for going on 38 years and everyone is used to my quirky behavior. 🙂

And to your last query, the CAF forum. Yes, I have find a home here, definitely, and look forward to dropping in often. I said to God a number of years ago, I love you and am willing to witness for you, but given the personality you created within me, it can’t be with people face to face. A short time after that I discovered the internet and here is my niche.
 
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Jessica01 said:
Was it difficult to get out?
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No, not at all. People did so all the time. Of course, they could expect a visit from the elders, just to make sure they knew just what it was they were turning their backs on. Some returned after a time away, others never did.

By the time I left the church was shrinking substantially. The local congregation, once numbering over 340 now sees about 20 people show up on any given week. But as I mentioned to another poster, it’s no longer the same church and is not much different from any other mainstream Protestant denomination. There are many splinter groups that try to keep up the hard line of Armstrong, but they are very small and have little influence on anyone apart from those who agree with them. The largest of these is probably the Philadelphia Church of God, a group headed by a former Armstrong minion named Gerald Fleury. There is a great deal of information available on all these churches online.
 
laylow said:
Are there others who wish to get out, but don’t think they can?
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I honestly wouldn’t think so. The only way they could keep someone from leaving would be by guilt, but no one was ever bodily prevented from walking out the door.
 
CelticWarlord said:
Was it difficult to get out?

No, not at all. People did so all the time
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That doesn’t sound terribly “cultish”. The beliefs of Herbert W Armstrong et al may well have been off the wall, but unless they are roping people in, brainwashing them, and not letting them leave, I’m not sure I’d call them a “cult”.

When someone says “cult” to me, I think of their parents hiring Ted Patrick to kidnap them and bring them to a motel room for deprogramming.
 
Augustinian said:
I’m not sure I’d call them a “cult”.
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It took me several years to begin thinking of them in that way. But if your mind is held captive with erroneous beliefs, your body may as well be locked up as well. As a contrast, my wife does not carry the same strong feelings as I do. It depends on your strength of mind at the time.
 
adgloriam said:
And perhaps the right question isn’t how difficult it was to get out, but how hard it was being kept there
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As mentioned in my previous post, the mind is what’s held captive. Walking away would have meant being consumed with guilt, because it would have meant it was God I was rejecting.

In the 1970’s when I first began my foray into this brand of faith, the WCG was lumped in with the other cults of the day in much of religious media coverage. I dismissed this, of course, because I had been convinced that this was God’s “one true church”, and that all the others, therefore, must be false. In looking back I don’t think I ever felt that the church proper ever gave any thought to anyone’s well being. The concerns were always doctrinal purity and money, money, money.
adgloriam said:
[did you succeed at garnering members for the sect? and contribute to keep others there, through questionable means?
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No, the role I played was just another dumb sheep. As a song leader in my last year there the tenor of the whole organization had changed and there were few people left in the congregation to lead. That “family council” I mentioned lasted only a few weeks when it became apparent that the pastor was still trying to manipulate us. The council was a poor attempt on his part to make it look like the membership were finally going to be given a say in matters.
 
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What’s the difference between organized religion and a cult other than the size of their memberships?
 
While many, including myself, tend to think of cults as a small company of harassed people living in some backwoods compound, the leader a dirty man with a ratty beard and seventeen wives, and the women and girls all wearing ankle length dresses, there are much more subtle varietiies to be noticed. There are many definitions of “cult”, and the word once meant nothing more than “a following”. Our word culture comes from this.

But today a cult can be defined as any group with a single leader who answers to no one; a group where the membership is manipulated through belittlement and harrasment; where legalism is the order of the day and no objections to dogma are tolerated; and where fear and control, not love, is the motivating factor behind faith.

In the 1970’s the Worldwide Church of God was very much within this bracket and were constantly targeted by a local ‘cult watcher’, an Anglican priest who specialized in fringe Christianity. We weren’t held prisoner except in our minds, but that is a powerful factor. No fences were needed when the fear of eternal punishment was constantly hung over our heads. Even the more strong-minded can become convinced that there is only one truth and we’d better hang onto it. Teaching us that criticism from outside was nothing more than the persecution Paul said would come upon “the true church” was the prime contributing rhetoric.
 
So when religions take advantage of the ignorant and push the message that they are broken people with the idea of hell as a real threat along with all the other myths to scare them into self hate, they are acting as a cult. But when the religions are recruiting the well to do and educated, then its just a benign cultural soiree. Where people are just gathering to socialize and make connections in the community. I don’t find any major religion that doesn’t prescribe to these two processes. In Africa and South America, catholicism is a cult. But in England and America, its a religion.
 
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Modern Christian religions, in my opinion, have to walk a very fine line between saying that hell is a very real possibility, and that God loves us and doesn’t want anyone to be lost. They can say that fear is no motivation for obedience, but with the next breath offer this hell scenario. We have to, we’re told, want to obey and believe. But if someone simply doesn’t believe because what has been presented to them does not seem plausible, how is this their fault?

Here’s an example. If salvation depended on my believing that green beans were delicious, yes, I would say, green beans are delicious. But I would not be telling the truth. I do not believe green beans are tasty at all. So when certain dogmas are taught that I simply cannot believe in, the same holds true. I don’t find certain doctrines at all plausible and have not been convinced of them, so I how can I say i believe them? Here I agree with the late Dr. Marcus Borg; that “belief” is highly overrated. One can believe all the right things, he would say, and still be a nasty neighbor, an obnoxious boss, and an irritable church member. Without transformation, belief becomes meaningless.

So to get to your post, Christianity fails in many cases in getting across the message that life in Christ is about love, about self sacrifice, and about compassion. I love Catholicism, please don’t misunderstand me here, but I can never formally become a Catholic. What the Church universal represents, in large part, is a legalism that smacks a bit too much like that I lived through with the WCG. If my salvation depends on my believing in A, B, and C, then I am hopelessly lost. But I choose to look beyond that to what I feel is the greater portion, and very much enjoy my connection with the Roman Catholic Church. It could, if I allowed it, envelope me with that cult-like embrace. But I am far too suspicious of religion in general for that to ever happen again.

I hope this response is of an adequate nature. 🙂
 
Throughout my life I’ve always had a tough time with prayer. It’s a discipline which eluded me for most of my life. I seldom prayed when I was a member of the WCG. But part of that was my own fault because my expectations of prayer were skewed. And I didn’t like the idea of memorized prayers because that seemed to much like the biblical admonition to avoid vain repetitions, but that too I had misunderstood.

I began to understand that prayer, for me, was simply conversation with God. Sweeping away the old notion that I had to be kneeling at my bedside with deep thoughts and earnest pleas, was most refreshing. My favorite prayer times now are when I’m on my bike. I just talk, knowing God listens. At other times I enjoy praying the Rosary and will regularly make time to arrive at Mass early for Adoration. Prayer becomes a very personal thing for most people, and everyone must find what is most satisfying in their search for a contact with the Divine.
 
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