I think i am going to get shredded

[fbl9]

hi all i have only been here for a short time. i come to this section of the forums because with my past i feel i can offer help in what not to do,and some advice on achieving this goal.there is two camps regarding martial relationships it seems.camp A says the only thing allowed in martial intamcy is the embrace which is condusive to procreation. camp B states almost anything goes as long as male satisfaction occurs in the martial embrace which is condusive to procreation.one can say A is overly scrupulous and one can also say B has a lax concisous.perhaps both camps are correct if B feels that which they do does not go against thier concisous then they are free to do so.likewise those in camp A may do only which thier concisous allows.myself i find myself in camp B more oftener then not.

 

[Harmony1988]

hi all i have only been here for a short time. i come to this section of the forums because with my past i feel i can offer help in what not to do,and some advice on achieving this goal.there is two camps regarding martial relationships it seems.camp A says the only thing allowed in martial intamcy is the embrace which is condusive to procreation. camp B states almost anything goes as long as male satisfaction occurs in the martial embrace which is condusive to procreation.one can say A is overly scrupulous and one can also say B has a lax concisous.perhaps both camps are correct if B feels that which they do does not go against thier concisous then they are free to do so.likewise those in camp A may do only which thier concisous allows.myself i find myself in camp B more oftener then not.

Sometimes these thoughts come to our heads yes, and no doubt I guess most of the world resides in camp B, needless to say, probably goes to show why it’s wrong, just look at the state that marriage is in today.

 

[jcoldc]

If I’m reading this correctly "Camp B’ is saying that anything goes, as long as the possibility of pregnancy is the end result, as in not spilling the seed. I don’t believe most of the world is in this camp. I’m not sure that most Catholics are… Though those who are devout, probably are. Unfortunately, most people seem to be in Camp C. (Do what I want, and what is pleasing to me… And if I try to convince myself I’m faithful, I’ll find a religion that supports this.) If only it was a matter of debating Camp A and Camp B.

But I’m confused, why is Camp B a problem, if the end result is the same?

 

[StCsDavid]

But I’m confused, why is Camp B a problem, if the end result is the same?

I suppose the answer is that there are a lot of things you can do in Camp B that are an affront to the dignity of the spouse. Even if the spouse consents to being affronted in a particular way, doesn’t make it a moral good. Let’s avoid the graphic details and leave it at in the realm of sexuality a myriad of possibilities exist…some of those options can only degrade and objectify the one or both of the parties involved.

 

[fbl9]

If I’m reading this correctly "Camp B’ is saying that anything goes, as long as the possibility of pregnancy is the end result, as in not spilling the seed. I don’t believe most of the world is in this camp. I’m not sure that most Catholics are… Though those who are devout, probably are. Unfortunately, most people seem to be in Camp C. (Do what I want, and what is pleasing to me… And if I try to convince myself I’m faithful, I’ll find a religion that supports this.) If only it was a matter of debating Camp A and Camp B.

But I’m confused, why is Camp B a problem, if the end result is the same?

first off thanks to all that have posted thus far.yes you have read correctly jcoldc and i tend to agree with the rest of your statement.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I can see why you would title this thread the way you have considering the myriad of debates which seem to boil down to your “observation”.

The major problem with the statement “B”, is that “satisfaction” of one partner is not the same as “unitive”. It is also stating the observation in a very selfish way – the main purpose of sexuality is to mirror God in his total self giving, eg his love and in his “will” (not need) to have us as children.

The “anything goes” idea of camp B is really a confusing of the idea of “freedom” with the idea of “lack of constraint”. All true freedoms have boundaries marked by what we are and the world we live in. I am free to walk even with another person – contrained by the law of gravity. Without gravity one may still move – but not really “walk”.

Just so, one may imagine all kinds of abilities to do the sexual activity in licit but unusual ways – but most of them have natural and psychological consequences in how much they really express love to the other person vs. selfishness.

The purpose of marriage is to Give ones’self totally to the other spouse in love and so fulfill the “other”. The satisfaction one gets is a consequence of the other spouses gift – so that in a true marriage, the “satisfaction” aspect is a result of the other’s gift – not of a self making.

Not every mariatal ends in male physical “satisfaction” but that isn’t what is most important. In fact temporary inabilitiy/exhaustion/disinterest is a gift to strengthen one’s love for their spouse by being momentarily free of the temptation toward selfishness.

 

[fbl9]

I can see why you would title this thread the way you have considering the myriad of debates which seem to boil down to your “observation”.

The major problem with the statement “B”, is that “satisfaction” of one partner is not the same as “unitive”. It is also stating the observation in a very selfish way – the main purpose of sexuality is to mirror God in his total self giving, eg his love and in his “will” (not need) to have us as children.

The “anything goes” idea of camp B is really a confusing of the idea of “freedom” with the idea of “lack of constraint”. All true freedoms have boundaries marked by what we are and the world we live in. I am free to walk even with another person – contrained by the law of gravity. Without gravity one may still move – but not really “walk”.

Just so, one may imagine all kinds of abilities to do the sexual activity in licit but unusual ways – but most of them have natural and psychological consequences in how much they really express love to the other person vs. selfishness.

The purpose of marriage is to Give ones’self totally to the other spouse in love and so fulfill the “other”. The satisfaction one gets is a consequence of the other spouses gift – so that in a true marriage, the “satisfaction” aspect is a result of the other’s gift – not of a self making.

Not every mariatal ends in male physical “satisfaction” but that isn’t what is most important. In fact temporary inabilitiy/exhaustion/disinterest is a gift to strengthen one’s love for their spouse by being momentarily free of the temptation toward selfishness.

i guess sometimes an econmy of words does not fully convey the message.sorry i did not intend the male satisfaction was the gaol of the marital relations but the result of this satisfaction should be only in the marital embrace condusive to procreation.i do agree wholly that if the marital relations should be a giving of each of the partners.

 

[wcknight]

The sacrament of marriage does not end with the end of the marriage ceremony, nor does it end when the couple can no longer have children. Married couples engaging in the marital act are participating in the sacramental aspects of marriage even if they can no longer reproduce. IF they are still fertile that is a different story.

Normal sex is fine, but any sort of perversion or degrading sex would of course not be appropriate.