If a mass murderer can go to heaven once he repents, does it mean that God's mercy is above his justice?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ANV
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

ANV

Guest
God cares about justice, that’s why according to some there’s Heaven and Hell, and when you tell people that there is no afterlife, their response sometimes is that who judges the wrongdoings and the evil that is done, it wouldn’t be fair for everyone to just die, there must be something after we die that gives us justice and punish the bad.
So, doesn’t that mean that God’s mercy, by forgiving the mass murderer is above justice, and above the victims suffering, and above the logic in the argument that is often mentioned about the justice that exists in the afterlife.
 
All who die in God’s friendship (as a murderer might once he has repented) will go to heaven. However, we will still need to undergo purification for any sins we have committed on earth. This place of purification is called purgatory. The sacrament of confession remits eternal punishment for mortal sin but does not removal temporal punishment, which may be remitted through prayer, fasting, almsgiving, sacrifices, etc. God’s mercy is great. This does not lessen his justice.
 
No.

is the short answer.

Key variable to consider - the effect on the murderer that his actions have - probably not so easy to repent. Probably pretty low on the list of importance for the killer.

Assuming your scenario is true about an ability to repent, and such happens - Above our pay grade to know God’s Justice.

But we can think reasonably, for instance - Heaven has nothing impure in it - so there must be showers of some sort on the outside, perhaps not very comfortable showers.

Repenting does not equal purity.
 
The Catholic response is that the justice in such a case is met “in” purgatory if it was not satisfied in life.
 
ffg said:
But we can think reasonably, for instance - Heaven has nothing impure in it - so there must be showers of some sort on the outside, perhaps not very comfortable showers.
Click to expand...
It’s often likened to fire, but in the sense of how we refine and purify metals.
 
A different angle to consider about purgatory than thinking of it as a wash, as I mentioned above -

Purge.

Perhaps better, like surgery without the use of anesthesia to pull out a tumor.

Removing the effect of the ‘sin’ therefore creating the purity necessary.
 
I like a parenting analogy. A child might commit an incredibly serious offense for which he’s sorry. The parent forgives the child and isn’t going to evict him from the house, but still punishes the child (1) because punishment is deserved and (2) in order to make the child a better person.
 
I heard on the radio a quote from Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen: “When I get to Heaven, there will be three surprises: The first surprise is that there are some people there, who I NEVER expected to see there. The second surprise is that there are some people missing, not there, who I felt absolutely certain WOULD be there. And the third surprise is that I am there.”
 
Monte_RCMS said:
I heard on the radio a quote from Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen: “When I get to Heaven, there will be three surprises: The first surprise is that there are some people there, who I NEVER expected to see there. The second surprise is that there are some people missing, not there, who I felt absolutely certain WOULD be there. And the third surprise is that I am there.”
Click to expand...
👍

Heaven is one of those places you need to get there before you will truly understand it.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
I heard on the radio a quote from Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen: “When I get to Heaven, there will be three surprises: The first surprise is that there are some people there, who I NEVER expected to see there. The second surprise is that there are some people missing, not there, who I felt absolutely certain WOULD be there. And the third surprise is that I am there.”
Click to expand...
Purgatory will be a great surprise also to those who are not expecting it.
 
ANV said:
God cares about justice, that’s why according to some there’s Heaven and Hell, and when you tell people that there is no afterlife, their response sometimes is that who judges the wrongdoings and the evil that is done, it wouldn’t be fair for everyone to just die, there must be something after we die that gives us justice and punish the bad.
So, doesn’t that mean that God’s mercy, by forgiving the mass murderer is above justice, and above the victims suffering, and above the logic in the argument that is often mentioned about the justice that exists in the afterlife.
Click to expand...
Very good question which comes with a very good Catholic reasoning. In one word: “Purgatory”
 
I think that true justice, God’s kind of Justice, must have mercy involved. You can’t have true justice without mercy. To receive a mercy is itself a kind of Justice. For what kind of a world would it be if there was no mercy? Our world could not function without forgiveness. Could you imagine if everyone held up against everyone every wrong that had been done to them by others? We could never get along with each other. Thus, to be in a relationship with someone and to maintain friendships with others we have to learn how to forgive others. If we can not forgive others we can not be in relationships with them.

I think that God values reconciliation more than punishment. Punishment or some kind of reparation may still be required, but if reconciliation is achieved that is what is important. To be in heaven means to be friends with God. Hell is to be in emnity with God. God doesn’t want anyone to be cut off from him especially sinners. Of which we all are. If God did not have mercy on the sinner than no one could be saved. And thus you see the heart of God is to save poor sinners, not condemn them. What seems like injustice is actually the sublime reason for our existence in the first place, mainly God’s eternal love for us, even sinners. For Christ did not come to condemn the world but to save it.

For an atheist the highest crime is murder. But the actual worst thing is not murder but eternal separation from God. Being reconciled to God does not mean we do not have to make reparation or have consequences for our past sins, but it does mean a promise of eternal life and eventual healing from them. God bless.

God’s attitude toward the sinner is summed up in the parable of the prodigal son. It was the older brother who did not think the prodigal son should have been welcomed home with open arms. But the Father said they must rejoice because his son has returned to him and is no longer lost but is found.
 
God’s justice goes beyond merely punishment for sins, and moves towards repentance and reconciliation with God and others. For true justice is more than just punishment but restores and heals all from the effects of sin including even the one who did the sin.
 
ANV said:
God cares about justice, that’s why according to some there’s Heaven and Hell, and when you tell people that there is no afterlife, their response sometimes is that who judges the wrongdoings and the evil that is done, it wouldn’t be fair for everyone to just die, there must be something after we die that gives us justice and punish the bad.
So, doesn’t that mean that God’s mercy, by forgiving the mass murderer is above justice, and above the victims suffering, and above the logic in the argument that is often mentioned about the justice that exists in the afterlife.
Click to expand...
Yes, kind of. God’s Mercy is not so much “above” God’s Justice but rather it is that His Justice is out of Mercy.

(I have had this assertion backed up by insight from someone who would definitely know of God’s ways).
 
Another thing is that forgiveness is always a gift. If someone steals your car, but then later returns it to you and gives you a thousand dollars, does that mean you owe him your forgiveness? Of course not. Even though he was sorry and made reparation for his wrong doing to you he still stole your car. It was still an injustice. Even if he spent time in prison does that now mean you are now obligated to forgive him? Of course not. Forgiveness is a gift. An act of mercy for the one who wronged you. It is Jesus himself that points out that we are to receive forgiveness as we forgive others. In other words how we can we expect to be forgiven if we refuse to forgive others? We expect God to forgive us unconditionally. Yet, do we forgive others that way? Why do we expect it for ourselves and not do it for others? Because we are all sinners we all need mercy. And thus we all need to give mercy. Its a 2 way street.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top