If a non-infallible doctrine were to be proven false, would the Church still remain infallible?

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WannabeSaint

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Catholics are obliged under sin to follow the doctrines of the Church, even if some happen to be non-infallible.

My question is, if somehow one of these non-infallible teachings were proven wrong, would that eliminate the Church’s infallibility?
 
Doctrines are by definition infallible. What you’re referring to is a disciplinary practice. Either way, the Church being on a matter it has not spoken as infallible does not damage the Church’s infallibility because, as you said, the Church didn’t say it was. It’s like asking if an expert’s opinion on his/her subject matter is to still be believed even if they wrongly say what the menu is for lunch that day in the cafeteria.
 
What would be your example of a 'non-infallible doctrine proven false?"
 
Right. And a discipline can be changed, not because it becomes ‘false’, but because it might be superseded or become not relevant to a large group. For example, Friday abstinence from meat remains the norm in the Catholic Church, but for many countries their bishops requested that there be an indult for ‘non-Lent Fridays’ so that the people could eat meat then. This was often done either because the people themselves were eating less meat so that abstinence was a moot point, or because they wished to offer a penance that was more meaningful for them personally.

So the discipline remains true.
And the discipline itself is not ‘meat is bad’ (because if that were the case, then not eating meat should be done not just on Lent Fridays but on every day of the year) but rather 'sacrificing something you like that is meaningful, for God.
 
stpurl said:
What would be your example of a 'non-infallible doctrine proven false?"
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Doctrines that are still in the realm of free opinion. For instance, Limbo, our prayers effecting those in Purgatory, the teaching on the death penalty, if Mary was in pain during Jesus’s birth, etc.
 
WannabeSaint said:
Doctrines that are still in the realm of free opinion. For instance, Limbo, our prayers effecting those in Purgatory, the teaching on the death penalty, if Mary was in pain during Jesus’s birth, etc.
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Those aren’t doctrines.
 
WannabeSaint said:
Catholics are obliged under sin to follow the doctrines of the Church, even if some happen to be non-infallible.

My question is, if somehow one of these non-infallible teachings were proven wrong, would that eliminate the Church’s infallibility?
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Fauken said:
Those aren’t doctrines.
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They aren’t? I don’t know what you mean.

Doctrine is the Latin for teaching. Doctrines, things taught, can be true or false. Infallibility refers to teaching or believing as an act. The Pope teaching infallibly means that the thing taught must be true.

Papal infallibility is strictly defined, with the implication that when he does not teach ex cathedra on faith or morals, he is fallible. As in usually he does not teach infallibly. He may still be teaching what is true, usually is we hope, but we do not know it to be true by the way it is presented. That something is true if it was taught infallibly in no way means that something taught fallibly is not true. Rather it means we do not know it to be true (or false) by the way it was taught.

We still expect the Pope to teach truth, and Catholics give appropriate respect and deference to what is taught by the Pope even when he is not teaching infallibly.

What was the question again? lol I think it can be answered based on what I have said.
 
Dovekin said:
They aren’t? I don’t know what you mean.
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Doctrines are indeed teachings. Teachings like the Trinity, the Resurrection, the sinlessness of Mary, the Papacy, etc. They are the highest level of “teachings” and as such are all infallible, and must be held as true by all Catholics. But the Church has never taught Limbo, whether Mary experienced pain during labor, etc. as doctrine. They are not even dogmas (the Immaculate Conception is dogma, not doctrine), though should there ever be a definitive pronouncement on any of those things, they would be dogmas.
 
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CCC 892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a “definitive manner,” they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To this ordinary teaching the faithful “are to adhere to it with religious assent” which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it.
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Well, I suppose it is good to know how others interpret the word doctrine. I forsee much confusion in future discussions if one person means “infallible teachings” and another person means “any teaching.” Knowing the nuances of how people use the term may be helpful.

To answer the original question now that I have a chance, if a non-infallible teaching were proven false, it would not have much impact on the Church’s infallibility. God will still guide the Church into all truth, so the Church will accept what is true and proclaim it.

Even if something that was taught infallibly were proven false, the response would be about the same. Our understanding of infallibility would probably change somewhat, or someone will show that it was never taught by the Church. The Church would still accept what is true and proclaim it as true, as God asks of us.
 
If it is something that is acknowledged to be non infallible and it is proved to be false then that would not affect the infallible nature of the Catholic Faith.
 
Well limbo to begin with was never false it was where the souls were held before Christ died and opened heaven and released the souls. We still pray for souls of purgatory always have will. Blessed mother was free from pain because she was saved from original sin at moment of birth.
 
They are not even disciplines. They fall under the “Theological opinions”. Very much doubt the Church would ever make a definitive declaration on any of them.
 
Fauken said:
Doctrines are by definition infallible. What you’re referring to is a disciplinary practice. Either way, the Church being on a matter it has not spoken as infallible does not damage the Church’s infallibility because, as you said, the Church didn’t say it was. It’s like asking if an expert’s opinion on his/her subject matter is to still be believed even if they wrongly say what the menu is for lunch that day in the cafeteria.
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That is not correct. There are infallible teachings and non-infallible teachings, neither of which are disciplines.
 
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