If a patient does not want food or water

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I’m well aware of the Church’s stance against euthanasia.

Suppose a person made a will that stated (or even if they verbally requested) that if they were in a coma or in a state where regaining consciousness seemed unlikely, and that they would not want any medical attention (including food or water, the basic necessities for a patient according to the Church).

Would it be immoral to respect their wishes?
 
Most people in hospices refuse food or water t some point. their bodies are basically shutting down, and the only care the medical staff can give is palliative care to relieve suffering and anxiety.

If someone is in an irreversible coma there is no necessity to feed them against their wishes.
 
triumphguy said:
If someone is in an irreversible coma there is no necessity to feed them against their wishes.
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Wouldn’t that constitute you, as a doctor, helping them to kill themselves? Catholics are allowed to discontinue services that are beyond the necessities, but I thought we could never stop giving someone food or water, since those are the absolute basic necessities of life.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Wouldn’t that constitute you, as a doctor, helping them to kill themselves? Catholics are allowed to discontinue services that are beyond the necessities, but I thought we could never stop giving someone food or water, since those are the absolute basic necessities of life.
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If the person is in a coma, the only way to feed them is by inserting tubes which, apparently, they have stated they do not want.

If a terminal person is still conscious and refuses food, you are not obliged to force feed them.

This is why people need a living will. If a conscious person who had a living will and was in the last throes of life happened to ask for food and water, I certainly would not deny them.
 
No need to feed them if they have requested not to be fed.

Once a feeding tube is in however, it should stay unless the person begins to not tolerate the feedings (which happens), or otherwise it is causing them harm.
 
Mr.Blank1.5 said:
I’m well aware of the Church’s stance against euthanasia.

Suppose a person made a will that stated (or even if they verbally requested) that if they were in a coma or in a state where regaining consciousness seemed unlikely, and that they would not want any medical attention (including food or water, the basic necessities for a patient according to the Church).

Would it be immoral to respect their wishes?
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No ,if that were me i would leave it in the hands of God and only God will HE alone will take my life, i watched both my parents die and they would never have considered even thinking such things let alone asking any of their children to.
 
triumphguy said:
Most people in hospices refuse food or water t some point. their bodies are basically shutting down, and the only care the medical staff can give is palliative care to relieve suffering and anxiety.

If someone is in an irreversible coma there is no necessity to feed them against their wishes.
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This is a good explanation of the dying process. It can take time for the body to completely shut down. As for water, part of palliative care can be moistening a person’s lips or even using something wet to ease possible dryness in the mouth. Of course, that depends on the person’s individual dying process. The most important part of palliative care is love, respect, and understanding.
 
2278 Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of “over-zealous” treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one’s inability to impede it is merely accepted. The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected.
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2279 Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.
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scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm#2277

Question to you, would you want to receive the Eucharist if you could while in the coma, but still refuse overzealous care? If so, and the Eucharist miraculously sustained you, how would you want to react to this?
 
grannymh said:
This is a good explanation of the dying process. It can take time for the body to completely shut down. As for water, part of palliative care can be moistening a person’s lips or even using something wet to ease possible dryness in the mouth. Of course, that depends on the person’s individual dying process. The most important part of palliative care is love, respect, and understanding.
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I just watched my father in law die 10 days ago.

2 weeks ago he began refusing water.
3 weeks ago he refused food.

He had esophageal cancer and could not swallow, and his body couldn’t deal with food any longer.

If we had forced water down him he might have drowned in agony.

We wet his lips, kept him comfortable, and celebrated the time when he was able to communicate.
 
Giggly_Giraffe said:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm#2277

Question to you, would you want to receive the Eucharist if you could while in the coma, but still refuse overzealous care? If so, and the Eucharist miraculously sustained you, how would you want to react to this?
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As one who has had experience with both the sick and those in the midst of the dying process, the obvious first question would concern the coma itself. Would the particular coma allow swallowing? I realize that you used the phrase “if you could” but real life is not that simple especially if the person is conscious enough to understand what overzealous care means and then refuse it. In that case, the patient’s advocate should contact the hospital’s pastoral care department or the person’s church and do what it takes to have Holy Communion brought immediately.

And yes, due to some odd coincidents, I ended up driving across town to bring the Eucharist to a sick person. I did not know how close to death she was. I got there moments before her throat closed. A brief tear welled in her eye which was her recognition that she had received Our Lord. When leaving her room, I wondered about the odd coincidents which brought me to someone who was not on my list for a casual visit as a hospice worker.

I looked up and there was a rosary hanging on the bulletin board in her room. The coincidents then made sense. Mary was caring for her child.
 
Giggly_Giraffe said:
Question to you, would you want to receive the Eucharist if you could while in the coma, but still refuse overzealous care? If so, and the Eucharist miraculously sustained you, how would you want to react to this?
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Maybe you should word it, would you want to receive Communion while also receiving palliative care?

And the answer to that would be, of course. Why wouldn’t you?

(I don’t know that anyone can receive Communion unaware.)
 
So from these responses, if a patient explicitly states that they do not want food or water should they ever become unresponsive, then it is morally licit to respect those wishes?

Do I have that correct?
 
Mr.Blank1.5 said:
So from these responses, if a patient explicitly states that they do not want food or water should they ever become unresponsive, then it is morally licit to respect those wishes?

Do I have that correct?
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There is more than “unresponsive” … Posted earlier from the Catechism of the Cathioic Church, “… Here one does not will to cause death; one’s inability to impede it is merely accepted …”. Then yes, it is morally licit.
 
Suppose the person, in addition to being terminally ill, is depressed to the point that he wants to die. Would a request that he not be given food or water be akin to committing suicide?
 
Lost_Sheep said:
Suppose the person, in addition to being terminally ill, is depressed to the point that he wants to die. Would a request that he not be given food or water be akin to committing suicide?
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I don’t see how fighting with him to take food and/or water is going to help his depression. You can put him in a hospital where tubes can be inserted and not removed or you can fight to feed him at home.

I opt for making him as comfortable as possible with drugs to remove the pain. Maybe he’ll change his mind and eat something but it will not be enough to save his life. He is terminal.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
Suppose the person, in addition to being terminally ill, is depressed to the point that he wants to die. Would a request that he not be given food or water be akin to committing suicide?
Click to expand...
Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.
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“… Even if death is imminent, ordinary care owed to a sick person…” a psychologist should be available to this person as ordinary care. I suspect knowing you are terminally ill would naturally make a person depressed; taken along with some of the painkillers (also part of ordinary care) the depression could spiral. This is where the psychologist & a priest could work on maintaining the human dignity.

My dad was a lung transplant receiver. The transplant was amazing. The doctors did an outstanding job of caring for his new lung. However, they failed at taking care of his whole person. After colospomy, intestines falling out, blood clots, crippling arthritis, and blindness all tied to the transplant & the drugs my dad cried “no more” and refused his anti-rejection drugs. We knew when we signed up that depression was side effect of the drugs. I now wonder why they transplant care didn’t have regular psychological visits.

Anyways Pallitive Care was given after they checked my dad into a psych rehab for a Week. I would say God Bless the Pallitive care ppl!!!
 
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