If a person doesn't have joy does that mean they arnt saved?

[Rozellelily]

I mean baptised and non baptised people.
I don’t mean happiness as in a human emotion from cognitive affect/temporal lobe but joy which is a spiritual thing.

 

[LegoGE1947]

I mean baptised and non baptised people.
I don’t mean happiness as in a human emotion from cognitive affect/temporal lobe but joy which is a spiritual thing.

I don’t understand the difference between joy and happiness. I wish someone would clear that up for me. Thanks. I’ve heard the saying in the past: “If you are joyful please inform your face!”

 

[MaryT777]

I don’t recall reading in the Bible anything suggesting joy is necessary for salvation.
I assume it’s a gift from God.

 

[Nonsmoker]

I don’t understand the difference between joy and happiness. I wish someone would clear that up for me. Thanks. I’ve heard the saying in the past: “If you are joyful please inform your face!”

There is a small difference, joy is from God, and happiness is from the world. Joy is grace from God, happiness is what you feel when you open a present and find, lets say (for arguments sake) money. Joy on the other-hand is what you feel when you (or at least for me) walk out of Church or from the confessional and just feel joy. Many people misuse the word joy. You can feel happiness from pre-marital sex, but no one says they feel joy. Happiness is essentially the product of fun, and joy is the product of God.

 

[Nonsmoker]

I mean baptised and non baptised people.
I don’t mean happiness as in a human emotion from cognitive affect/temporal lobe but joy which is a spiritual thing.

Joy is from God and happiness is from the world. So one without joy is one without God in a way. Obviously one does not need to feel joy 24/7 to be a good person.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Joy is from God and happiness is from the world. So one without joy is one without God in a way. Obviously one does not need to feel joy 24/7 to be a good person.

For a long time the only Joy I knew was a product of Procter & Gamble (a dishwashing detergent)

 

[PRmerger]

No one is “saved” until he dies. Period.

So it’s a irrelevant question to ask if we can tell if someone is saved by how joyful he is. If he’s alive and still with us, then he isn’t actually saved yet.

 

[meltzerboy]

I mean baptised and non baptised people.
I don’t mean happiness as in a human emotion from cognitive affect/temporal lobe but joy which is a spiritual thing.

I suppose that idea is linked to Calvinism: if one is prosperous and happy in this life, that is a sign that one is a member of the select few who are saved. I don’t think it has a basis in Catholicism although knowing G-d and living according to His will would most likely make one joyful even in the midst of suffering. In Judaism, the question is rather meaningless since the focus of the religion is not on salvation.

 

[polytropos]

There is a small difference, joy is from God, and happiness is from the world. Joy is grace from God, happiness is what you feel when you open a present and find, lets say (for arguments sake) money. Joy on the other-hand is what you feel when you (or at least for me) walk out of Church or from the confessional and just feel joy. Many people misuse the word joy. You can feel happiness from pre-marital sex, but no one says they feel joy. Happiness is essentially the product of fun, and joy is the product of God.

I understand and agree with the distinction you are making between joy and happiness. But is happiness necessarily/always as… worldly and unfulfilling as the examples in this thread suggest? Can one be happy from, say, raising a family or doing charitable works - or would what is conferred by those things be considered joy? Happiness can still be part of one’s telos, correct?

I’m used to studying literature, where there is often a similar dichotomy between happiness and base contentment - in which case “happiness” is generally taken to be what is truly valuable and meaningful (often in a secular context), while things like money and sex tend to provide something less fulfilling.

 

[Nonsmoker]

Joy, is something I like to think as something that feeds your religious fervour and zeal, something that cannot be explained or replicated by anything worldly. Raising a family in the Church is a form of ministry, in my mind, all ministry is fueled by the grace of joy. In this case, it’s a bit like having cake and eating it too; grace being cake and eating it is happiness

 

[polytropos]

Joy, is something I like to think as something that feeds your religious fervour and zeal, something that cannot be explained or replicated by anything worldly. Raising a family in the Church is a form of ministry, in my mind, all ministry is fueled by the grace of joy. In this case, it’s a bit like having cake and eating it too; grace being cake and eating it is happiness

Thank you.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Thank you.

In other words, “it is better felt than tellt.”

 

[Dr_Joe_Miller]

I’ve heard it said that joy is not the absence of suffering, it is the presence of God. St Seraphim greeted each guest with, “Hello my joy.” I was so impressed that I greet my wife at all times with the same word. She is my joy. However, If I may make a wild assumption, I will assume that you are disillusioned by Christian acquaintances who fling the cavalier statements concerning salvation and “joy.” I too wonder about the underlining motives behind the joy slogans. They seldom maintain the outward show themselves. All of us must exhaust our own efforts at being happy. Jesus said he didn’t come for the well but the sick. I Am humbled by the heroic efforts many make to be authentic in their love and pursuit of
God. If you want someone’s opinion of your position with God to inspiring, look no further than the scriptures, the saints, and those few in each community of believers who humility and hunger for God are patently obvious.
Joe

 

[LegoGE1947]

I’ve heard it said that joy is not the absence of suffering, it is the presence of God. St Seraphim greeted each guest with, “Hello my joy.” I was so impressed that I greet my wife at all times with the same word. She is my joy. However, If I may make a wild assumption, I will assume that you are disillusioned by Christian acquaintances who fling the cavalier statements concerning salvation and “joy.” I too wonder about the underlining motives behind the joy slogans. They seldom maintain the outward show themselves. All of us must exhaust our own efforts at being happy. Jesus said he didn’t come for the well but the sick. I Am humbled by the heroic efforts many make to be authentic in their love and pursuit of
God. If you want someone’s opinion of your position with God to inspiring, look no further than the scriptures, the saints, and those few in each community of believers who humility and hunger for God are patently obvious.
Joe

Thanks, Joe! Just what the “doctor” ordered!

 

[Dr_Joe_Miller]

By the way, don’t you find it frustrating how editing programs respell (rather randomly) words that it assumes would be a better choice. Which makes me think of communication. What we think we said may not be what we really said, or at least not what the person listening thought they heard,