If abortion is murder why don't we treat it like it is?

[Rau]

The most likely outcome of an attempted intervention is the person would be arrested and the baby would still be murdered.

And the pro-abortion cause would likely be strengthened and the pro-life case viewed as the province of nutters…

 

[HomeschoolDad]

If you support the death penalty, the you have to support the right to abortion because both are killing…

That’s a new one on me. I thought that pro-choice people, generally speaking, psychologically anesthetized themselves to think of abortion as not being killing. I will concede that, at a very late stage, they might view it as one human life against which other (in their eyes) grave, possibly tragic priorities have a competing and possibly superior claim — the mother’s life itself, grave fetal abnormality, a foreseen life of great suffering, a likelihood of the child not living long in the first place, and so on. I am not condoning this, and I would never condone this, but it comes from a different psychological place, than a woman finding out she is six weeks pregnant, and she just can’t do it because she has an entire life or career in front of her, and having a baby (as she sees it) would ruin everything — in other words, the birth control failed, or things got out of hand a few weeks back and she didn’t “dodge a bullet” this time.

 

[Thomas54]

That’s a new one on me

When discussing abortion with a Pro-Choice type, you can’t apply Platonian Logic to the abortion issue without having a stroke.

Murder is not allowed.

Abortion is Murder

Therefore abortion isn’t allowed.

Where the Pro-Life & Pro-Abortion sides can’t agree is the “Abortion is Murder” part. But you know what, our Loving Father knows the truth.

Thomas

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

That’s a new one on me

When discussing abortion with a Pro-Choice type, you can’t apply Platonian Logic to the abortion issue without having a stroke.

Murder is not allowed.

Abortion is Murder

Therefore abortion isn’t allowed.

Where the Pro-Life & Pro-Abortion sides can’t agree is the “Abortion is Murder” part. But you know what, our Loving Father knows the truth.

Thomas

First of all, I would hope that nobody is “pro-abortion”. Those would be some really sick puppies.

I typically don’t discuss abortion with pro-choice types. I live a very quiet, almost secluded life, in retirement and caring for my family who needs me, and CAF is about as vociferous as I ever get.

I find that pro-choice folks typically think something like this:

• Very early on, no, it’s not human, it’s not murder to abort it. At the very most, it’s potential human life, but no more than that.
• That “potential” is what makes it “sad”, “tragic”, and all the other adjectives they use to explain why, no, it’s not quite the same as having an appendix or a gall bladder removed. Appendices and gall bladders don’t become babies in a few months. Hormones, which no politics can flush away, also play a part in the “sadness”.
• When you start seeing fingers, toes, facial features, and even possibly resemblance to the rest of the family, that’s when it becomes, as Pete Buttigieg puts it, “agonizing”.
• No woman decides she doesn’t want to be pregnant anymore in the sixth or seventh month of pregnancy. If she does abort, it is against everything that her human nature militates for. She’d have to be a very special kind of cold-hearted wretch just to dismiss it as a mere “medical procedure”.
• Nonetheless, there are different moral and ethical systems in the world, and some of these ethical systems place human life as just one value, possibly even the greatest value, in a “basket of values”, but not the only value. In some extreme cases, one or more of the lesser values could take priority — “yes, we killed it, but we had to”. It’s certainly more “agonizing” than if I shoot and kill an assailant who is threatening to kill me or someone else — I’d rather not, but it’s either him or us — but I don’t think anyone “blows it off” as having no moral coloration whatsoever. Again, different ethical systems. The Amish, if victims of a home invasion, would let themselves be killed rather than fight back. (And many Amish do own firearms, some of them are avid hunters.)
• And many “personally opposed but pro-choice” people (including, sadly, many Catholics) would add “yes, there are different moral and ethical systems, and I cannot force my system upon someone else, nor can I force the ‘not human yet’ people to adopt my theological stance — because, at bottom, that’s what it is, seeing a very young preborn conceived entity as a human being is a matter of faith, not law”.

 

[JimG]

From a legal standpoint, it’s not murder until the child emerges from the womb. It’s murder to kill a newborn. But several minutes earlier, with the child still in the womb, he or she can be killed with impunity. It makes no sense.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I DO treat abortion like murder. Because it is.

 

[Thomas54]

From a legal standpoint, it’s not murder until the child emerges from the womb. It’s murder to kill a newborn. But several minutes earlier, with the child still in the womb, he or she can be killed with impunity. It makes no sense.

I agree that it makes no sense. But what also makes no sense is when someone kills a mother that is pregnant in a car accident, we’ve all seen the driver that killed the mother sometimes be charged with killing the infant in the womb. Personally, I agree with that charge, but it’s not consistent with whether the fetus is a child or not.

Thomas

 

[MNathaniel]

First of all, I would hope that nobody is “pro-abortion”. Those would be some really sick puppies.

I typically don’t discuss abortion with pro-choice types. I live a very quiet, almost secluded life, in retirement and caring for my family who needs me, and CAF is about as vociferous as I ever get.

That’s genuinely nice and I’m happy it’s your experience, and that CAF is the most rough-and-tumble close you get to said sick puppies.

Just to mention, though, they do exist. I’ve spoken face to face with pro choicers who believe, cold and calm, it should be legal to kill a child up to 2 years old.

And that was years before the euthanasia angle started closing the conversation in from both ends.

So just to say, I’m glad you don’t personally have to deal with them. But there are sick puppies. Please pray for them (and for those of us who do have to deal with them).

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

First of all, I would hope that nobody is “pro-abortion”. Those would be some really sick puppies.

I typically don’t discuss abortion with pro-choice types. I live a very quiet, almost secluded life, in retirement and caring for my family who needs me, and CAF is about as vociferous as I ever get.

That’s genuinely nice and I’m happy it’s your experience, and that CAF is the most rough-and-tumble close you get to said sick puppies.

Just to mention, though, they do exist. I’ve spoken face to face with pro choicers who believe, cold and calm, it should be legal to kill a child up to 2 years old.

Evil as this is, at least they are being consistent. I invite everyone, as a thought experiment, to imagine a social order where 60 percent of the people think it is all right to euthanize a child through the age of three months, with many who would defend this (albeit as an “agonizing” choice) as late as nine months, and with a majority of the electorate (including many different “identity groups” and “intersectionalities”) being willing to vote for public officials who advocate “choice” in this regard. Mutatis mutandis, that’s what we have right now, where abortion is concerned. Think about it — imagine if we lived in a society that said “this needs to be every family’s personal choice, we may be personally opposed, but we cannot impose our morality on others, it should be legal, and it should be safe (for some reason, they don’t like the “rare” part anymore)”, with facilities in place that couples could go to. A further description is too horrifying even for me, and I don’t horrify easily.

And that was years before the euthanasia angle started closing the conversation in from both ends.

So just to say, I’m glad you don’t personally have to deal with them. But there are sick puppies. Please pray for them (and for those of us who do have to deal with them).

Euthanasia has been “snuck in through the back door”, such that many people favor it these days. But, no, I don’t deal with abortophiles, the closest I’ve come was a couple of sick jokes about abortion told by truly evil people. Told me everything about their character that I needed to know.

 

[Rau]

But what also makes no sense is when someone kills a mother that is pregnant in a car accident, we’ve all seen the driver that killed the mother sometimes be charged with killing the infant in the womb. Personally, I agree with that charge, but it’s not consistent with whether the fetus is a child or not.

I don’t know the legal basis of that - perhaps the mother is granted a right to kill their unborn offspring, but no one else has that right?

 

[Thomas54]

I don’t know the legal basis of that - perhaps the mother is granted a right to kill their unborn offspring, but no one else has that right?

In the warped world that we live in, I guess that reasoning makes perfect sense.

Thomas