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SocaliCatholic
Guest
It appears to me that the purpose of Catholic apologetics is to convert everyone to the same truth, so if this actually occured what would things be like on earth?
If Catholics could have everything their way, what would it be like?
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JimG
Guest
A lot less confusing, since truth is one.
Not that it would eliminate all conflict. As you may have noticed on these forums, Catholics are not always in perfect agreement on every issue.
Not that it would eliminate all conflict. As you may have noticed on these forums, Catholics are not always in perfect agreement on every issue.
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JimG
Guest
Or, as my non-Catholic cousin said to me once after finishing his first undergraduate course in the history of western civilization, “I never realized that up until the 1500’s, everybody was Catholic!”
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rwoehmke
Guest
A reading of the History of the Papal States might shed some light. Of course the outside world continued to have some impact on them for as long as they existed. 
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Church_Militant
Guest
Sociali…
You left out a lot of options , so I didn’t vote…
I think you misunderstand the real purpose of apologetics. It’s to help others actually understand what the Catholic faith is. we also call it “defense of the Faith” because we find ourselves having to stand up & clearly state what the Church really teaches as opposed to all the tripe that so many others crank out about us. You have to believe that there is such a thing as absolute truth… If that doesn’t exist then we are all in a world of hurt, because that would mean that all life is merely relative & that way lies all the situational ethics that has got so many of us so badly fouled up. If one beieves in absolute truth then one seeks for it w/ a deep & honest commitment, one incurs a moral obligation to obey that truth when one discovers it. I would cease being Catholic in a heartbeat if someone could prove that we are wrong and they had the real truth…however…no has so far in almost 3 years…and from all the early church stuff I’ve read, no one has even scratched the paint on it in all 2,000 years of Christianity. Hence: I’m here to stay. The uniformity of belief is simply the mark of many people discovering & obeying the absolute truth they have discovered.
Does this help?
By the way…have you read Bud Macfarlane’s great book, Pierced By A Sword? He gives a very interesting view of what life might be like during the Eucharistic Reign of Christ. I’ve read it about 9 times…it’s THAT good!
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SocaliCatholic
Guest
Church Militant:
Agreed, but I think some people aren’t seeing the irony of what I am trying to get a consensus on - if everyone on earth became Catholic and believed in the same Truth, would we all be light hearted happy campers or serious and militant?Sociali…
You left out a lot of options , so I didn’t vote…
I think you misunderstand the real purpose of apologetics. It’s to help others actually understand what the Catholic faith is. we also call it “defense of the Faith” because we find ourselves having to stand up & clearly state what the Church really teaches as opposed to all the tripe that so many others crank out about us. You have to believe that there is such a thing as absolute truth… If that doesn’t exist then we are all in a world of hurt, because that would mean that all life is merely relative & that way lies all the situational ethics that has got so many of us so badly fouled up. If one beieves in absolute truth then one seeks for it w/ a deep & honest commitment, one incurs a moral obligation to obey that truth when one discovers it. I would cease being Catholic in a heartbeat if someone could prove that we are wrong and they had the real truth…however…no has so far in almost 3 years…and from all the early church stuff I’ve read, no one has even scratched the paint on it in all 2,000 years of Christianity. Hence: I’m here to stay. The uniformity of belief is simply the mark of many people discovering & obeying the absolute truth they have discovered.
Does this help?
By the way…have you read Bud Macfarlane’s great book, Pierced By A Sword? He gives a very interesting view of what life might be like during the Eucharistic Reign of Christ. I’ve read it about 9 times…it’s THAT good!
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rwoehmke
Guest
Church Militant:
I have read Pierced by the Sword twice. Like LeHayes Left Behind Series, it is an interesting piece of fiction with an End Times Flavor. I think you might be more rewarded by reading the Lives of the Saints by Butler for example. How could you stomach Pierced 9 times?
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
It depends what you mean by “Catholics.” Technically, all who have been accepted into the Church or baptized into her are Catholic. If you mean those who actually agree broadly with what the Church teaches, you better count only a minority of them. For example, over half the “Catholics” in one survey I read about in Catholic Digest a few months ago considered themselves overall “pro-choice.”
I think Catholics are divided against each other, and hold those who do not spout the same version of the “truth” on any given issue in more contempt even than Protestants. I can’t see that we love each other more because we’re Catholic than if we weren’t. Without that love improving any mechanical changes like converting Protestants to Catholicism or changing laws that Catholics want changed are going to amount to nothing.
We Catholics need to learn to love each other within the Church, and that will make us strong rather than a house divided. Then maybe we can align our collective wills with that of the Lord and seek real change in the world.
Alan
I think Catholics are divided against each other, and hold those who do not spout the same version of the “truth” on any given issue in more contempt even than Protestants. I can’t see that we love each other more because we’re Catholic than if we weren’t. Without that love improving any mechanical changes like converting Protestants to Catholicism or changing laws that Catholics want changed are going to amount to nothing.
We Catholics need to learn to love each other within the Church, and that will make us strong rather than a house divided. Then maybe we can align our collective wills with that of the Lord and seek real change in the world.
Alan
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SocaliCatholic
Guest
What I meant was if we agreed on the same doctrinal truth, my error. But I agree with everything you said.
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Church_Militant
Guest
I doubt it…the devil would just plain go balistic! :yup:
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Church_Militant
Guest
Hey it’s like hangin’ w/ old friends…I have read Pierced by the Sword twice. Like LeHayes Left Behind Series, it is an interesting piece of fiction with an End Times Flavor. I think you might be more rewarded by reading the Lives of the Saints by Butler for example. How could you stomach Pierced 9 times?
I read Story of a Soul…the life of Francis of Asissi
I stomach “Pierced” easily…as you can imagine.
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jeffreedy789
Guest
i don’t think any of the choices given correspond to my response.
evil will exist as long as there is man, unredeemed. if catholics could have everything their way, though, then ‘His kingdom would come on earth as it is in heaven’, which means that He would rule here, we would all love one another, and the kingdom of God would edge out the kingdom of the world - creating heaven on earth. in this case all men would be redeemed, and evil would cease to exist.
i’d point out that catholics WILL have everything ‘their way’ at the end of time.
alan said: 'I think Catholics are divided against each other, and hold those who do not spout the same version of the “truth” on any given issue in more contempt even than Protestants. ’
there are catholics and then there is the church. whenever you have a body of (not yet completely redeemed) human people who do ANYTHING, let alone something as polemical as religion, you’re going to have conflict. especially
when you have the enemy sowing discord among us, planting spies and troublemakers in our midst.
one of the many things i love about the church, though, is that while you do have (will always have, until everyone is redeemed) dissention and disagreement among catholic PEOPLE, you have unity and cohesion and agreement in the church itself. you have a creed. you have Tradition. you have SS. these things bring stability, unity, love, wisdom, beauty and balance to us - and to the world.
finally, i’d like to say that while bud mcfarlane’s book brings up many interesting issues, and is very good at allowing catholic people to be inspired by the example of others, it is in my opinion, some of the worst fiction i’ve ever read. the dialog literally made me wince and cringe. i don’t discourage anyone from reading his books, as i did learn alot, especially about marian devotion, from my ‘experience’. but i warn you - it is not pretty writing…
evil will exist as long as there is man, unredeemed. if catholics could have everything their way, though, then ‘His kingdom would come on earth as it is in heaven’, which means that He would rule here, we would all love one another, and the kingdom of God would edge out the kingdom of the world - creating heaven on earth. in this case all men would be redeemed, and evil would cease to exist.
i’d point out that catholics WILL have everything ‘their way’ at the end of time.
alan said: 'I think Catholics are divided against each other, and hold those who do not spout the same version of the “truth” on any given issue in more contempt even than Protestants. ’
there are catholics and then there is the church. whenever you have a body of (not yet completely redeemed) human people who do ANYTHING, let alone something as polemical as religion, you’re going to have conflict. especially
when you have the enemy sowing discord among us, planting spies and troublemakers in our midst.
one of the many things i love about the church, though, is that while you do have (will always have, until everyone is redeemed) dissention and disagreement among catholic PEOPLE, you have unity and cohesion and agreement in the church itself. you have a creed. you have Tradition. you have SS. these things bring stability, unity, love, wisdom, beauty and balance to us - and to the world.
finally, i’d like to say that while bud mcfarlane’s book brings up many interesting issues, and is very good at allowing catholic people to be inspired by the example of others, it is in my opinion, some of the worst fiction i’ve ever read. the dialog literally made me wince and cringe. i don’t discourage anyone from reading his books, as i did learn alot, especially about marian devotion, from my ‘experience’. but i warn you - it is not pretty writing…
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
I voted for the last of the choices - human sinfulness would re-assert itself in different ways, I believe. And the pressure from one’s co-religionists would be even greater than before, I imagine: so there is no guarantee we would be able to act more wisely, at all.
I think that, in our present fallen state, a world which inhabited wholly by Catholics would be fairly grim in some ways - competition can be a stimulus to much-needed change, in individuals, in the Church and in our insight into our faith. The good in what is outside the Church helps the Church to avoid holding on to what might be unhelpful or even evil; the evil in the world, is a warning for the Church of what to avoid. A wholly Catholic world, would not have these helps ##
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Gottle_of_Geer
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Seven_Sorrows
Guest
If Catholics could have everything their way, what would it be like?
…HEAVEN…heheheh…get it???
…HEAVEN…heheheh…get it???
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