If God is Logos, then how does he use think and use logic?

[Ben_Sinner]

If logic isn’t a creation of God, nor is it something that just exists that he uses…but God is logic itself…then how would it be possible for him to use logic to think?

For example: “I will create human beings because I’m overflowed with love for them”

If God is logic itself (an entity), then wouldn’t the act of thinking BE God (an entity) and not a mental tool we/he uses?

 

[porthos11]

If logic isn’t a creation of God, nor is it something that just exists that he uses…but God is logic itself…then how would it be possible for him to use logic to think?

For example: “I will create human beings because I’m overflowed with love for them”

If God is logic itself (an entity), then wouldn’t the act of thinking BE God (an entity) and not a mental tool we/he uses?

Thinking is a process and there are no processes in God. So God doesn’t think, insofar as thought is a process.

But you’re close. God is actually Knowledge, not logic or thinking and “before” anything was, there was only one object of his knowedge: himself, and the Idea God forms of himself can never be inadequate (because it’s impossible for God to inadequately know of himself). This Idea must be perfect and infinite just as God is. God’s Idea of himself is thefore his mind, his Logos. Being perfect and infinite, this Logos is God himself, the Second Person of the Trinity.

 

[mdgspencer]

God knows everything immediately and perfectly well. He doesn’t have to learn anything, by logic or otherwise.
Logos is a Greek word that doesn’t mean “logic.” It is the Greek term for “word.”

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Thinking is a process and there are no processes in God. So God doesn’t think, insofar as thought is a process.

That’s a bit of a sweeping statement.

If God doesn’t “think”, then where did the idea of the universe come from? If there are no processes in God, then either the universe always existed, or it just happened without any thought on His part - no plan, no reason, no nothing.

He thinks. How He thinks is anybody’s guess. He’s monitoring the thoughts of 7 billion people simultaneously and making judgements about them, and also their acts, words, and acts they should have done, and didn’t.

He’s sat in judgement on about 150,000 people who died today, died yesterday, and will die tomorrow.

He planned today’s technological world as much as yesterday’s horse and buggy world. He thinks.

He doesn’t change in His essence, but He thinks. He even changes His mind sometimes.

As for logic, it’s a tool He uses, and has given us the ability to use it as well, since we’re made in His image. The universe could be best described as mathematically elegant, or logically elegant.

But I have no more idea of how God uses logic than I have of His ability to simultaneously monitor the thoughts of 7 billion people which must be pretty boring for God sometimes (“What will I have for breakfast?”, “Time to clean my teeth.”, “Damn, I’ve missed the bus!”, “Whoops, my fly’s undone!” and “Jeez, I’m bored.”).

Imagine spending all day monitoring that sort of stuff, non stop, billions of times an hour, for thousands of years. He can have it.

 

[o_mlly]

That’s a bit of a sweeping statement.

If God doesn’t “think”, then where did the idea of the universe come from? If there are no processes in God, then either the universe always existed, or it just happened without any thought on His part - no plan, no reason, no nothing…

You and every creature who exists now or will exist has been an idea in the mind of God for all eternity.

 

[CeelosDeznos]

If logic isn’t a creation of God, nor is it something that just exists that he uses…but God is logic itself…then how would it be possible for him to use logic to think?

For example: “I will create human beings because I’m overflowed with love for them”

If God is logic itself (an entity), then wouldn’t the act of thinking BE God (an entity) and not a mental tool we/he uses?

I don’t know of any theological statement or dogma in Catholicism which teaches point blank: “Logic isn’t a creation of God.” In fact, Scripture says the opposite, that all wisdom is divine in origin, “the beginning of [God’s] works.”–Proverbs 8:22-36.

“Logic,” “rationale” the ability to use wisdom in reasoning are ways of describing something that begins with God. These describe, at least as far as Scripture and theology is concerned, a manner in which *humans * act and discern things.

However, it’s application to God is but another example of using limited human speech to describe the truly indescribable. Does God think in terms of humans? Thinking takes time. According to theology, God transcends both time and space, therefore how does the One who transcends time “go through” a process?

Good questions. Do I have answers? No, and I am not aware of any definitive answers that close the book on this. But consider this, saying that God employs logic as a “tool” as we do may not be correct. “Tools,” by strict definition, are implements used to carry out a particular function, often essential to the process itself or at least important in order to carry it out. Why would God need assistance in carrying out something? That’s what a “tool” is.

The more we try to describe God, the further away we might be carrying ourselves away from God. God’s command not to attempt creating an image or form of him is not merely a demand not to make an idol, but not to mistake that God can fit any preconceived idea humans may have about what and who God really is. This is the real sin behind the apostasy of the Israelites who, at the foot of Mt. Sinai, made a golden calf and claimed it was a representation of YHWH. (Exodus 32:1-8) Idols limit God to human understanding and our ability to comprehend him, thus automatically making the image anything but God. When we try to tie down God to our own definitions, we risk making our own golden calf before him.

 

[porthos11]

That’s a bit of a sweeping statement.

If God doesn’t “think”, then where did the idea of the universe come from? If there are no processes in God, then either the universe always existed, or it just happened without any thought on His part - no plan, no reason, no nothing.

He thinks. How He thinks is anybody’s guess. He’s monitoring the thoughts of 7 billion people simultaneously and making judgements about them, and also their acts, words, and acts they should have done, and didn’t.

He’s sat in judgement on about 150,000 people who died today, died yesterday, and will die tomorrow.

He planned today’s technological world as much as yesterday’s horse and buggy world. He thinks.

He doesn’t change in His essence, but He thinks. He even changes His mind sometimes.

As for logic, it’s a tool He uses, and has given us the ability to use it as well, since we’re made in His image. The universe could be best described as mathematically elegant, or logically elegant.

But I have no more idea of how God uses logic than I have of His ability to simultaneously monitor the thoughts of 7 billion people which must be pretty boring for God sometimes (“What will I have for breakfast?”, “Time to clean my teeth.”, “Damn, I’ve missed the bus!”, “Whoops, my fly’s undone!” and “Jeez, I’m bored.”).

Imagine spending all day monitoring that sort of stuff, non stop, billions of times an hour, for thousands of years. He can have it.

No, God does not think and he especially does not change his mind. There is absolutely no change at all in God. The order of creation is fixed from eternity and is not a process in him. It cannot be since there is no past, present or future for God. Insofar as thinking is a process, God does not think. God knows and God does. He even plans but this is not due to a process. His an is eternal and unchangeable because again, there is no change in God.

 

[lmelahn]

That’s a bit of a sweeping statement.

If God doesn’t “think”, then where did the idea of the universe come from? If there are no processes in God, then either the universe always existed, or it just happened without any thought on His part - no plan, no reason, no nothing.

He thinks. How He thinks is anybody’s guess. He’s monitoring the thoughts of 7 billion people simultaneously and making judgements about them, and also their acts, words, and acts they should have done, and didn’t.

He’s sat in judgement on about 150,000 people who died today, died yesterday, and will die tomorrow.

He planned today’s technological world as much as yesterday’s horse and buggy world. He thinks.

He doesn’t change in His essence, but He thinks. He even changes His mind sometimes.

As for logic, it’s a tool He uses, and has given us the ability to use it as well, since we’re made in His image. The universe could be best described as mathematically elegant, or logically elegant.

But I have no more idea of how God uses logic than I have of His ability to simultaneously monitor the thoughts of 7 billion people which must be pretty boring for God sometimes (“What will I have for breakfast?”, “Time to clean my teeth.”, “Damn, I’ve missed the bus!”, “Whoops, my fly’s undone!” and “Jeez, I’m bored.”).

Imagine spending all day monitoring that sort of stuff, non stop, billions of times an hour, for thousands of years. He can have it.

Unlike us, God does not need to use multiple actions to accomplish a lot of things. He only needs to use one Act, which is His very Being. So no, there are no “thought processes” in God, although His one Act produces, obviously, many effects. (Our thought processes, however, are an imperfect manifestation of the knowledge that God possesses far more perfectly than we do.)

God only “changes His mind”*in the sense that He has different dispositions for different circumstances of time and place. But it is not God Who has changed; it is the time and the place (and the persons involved).

Thankfully, therefore, God does not have to spend millions of hours monitoring things. He sees all of history at once in His eternal present.

 

[fred_conty]

In the book, Theology and Sanity by Frank sheed, he makes the point that in mysteries we should exclude thinking with our imagination, but only use our intellect to understand. This is one instance where our imagination fails us.

Time goes with change. No time then … frozen. It takes time for us to think, and therefore we can change our thoughts. If God has to change his thoughts, then he has to be in time. But we know he is outside of time. And therefore does not change his thought. He simply knows … all. This is difficult for us to understand because it is foreign to all we know … in time. We can’t think like we are in eternity, because we don’t have that ability to think eternally but only in time.

But when we do arrive in eternity, we will “be” what we are, without thoughts, and know only directly what God sees … forever. Our thoughts will not change because we will be outside of time as well. We will “know” God, who is knowledge, beauty, love, happiness, joy… As Jesus said, there is no giving or taking in marriage in heaven. We will be in a state of knowledge, love, … beyond imagination and experience.

“And I, being upright, shall see your face, the sight of you, when I wake, will be all that I need.” Psalm 16

 

[neophyte]

…But when we do arrive in eternity, we will “be” what we are, without thoughts, and know only directly what God sees … forever. Our thoughts will not change because we will be outside of time as well…

I’m never seen a compelling argument for the idea that we will someday exist outside of time. In fact, I’ve never seen any argument for it at all - only bare assertion.