If it wasn't for Martin Luther

[RobHom]

Hey Rob!

I missed ya!

Likewise! Been really busy for the last week… FL to ME, then to VA, then to MD, and in the morning I head back to FL!!

Was I too far off in my estimation of the “sisters” we speak of here?

Not at all… I think you were dead on about them… Its hard to believe that anyone with a brain can buy into that stuff. But then I can’t help but wonder if they aren’t just in it for the money…but somehow…I think they bought the line, and swallowed the hook.

 

[notsmart]

Likewise! Been really busy for the last week… FL to ME, then to VA, then to MD, and in the morning I head back to FL!!

Well, let’s not forget that the ones who led them are really to blame. They will have to account. I believe people are sincere (maybe I am naive, but hey!) and most often, they are led by a person they feel they can trust. You have to admit, people are so busy these days, just getting by they don’t always find the time to check things out they are spoon fed.

Love,

Monica

 

[PerryJ]

I believe that it would have been only a matter of time before folks began to see the false teachings and parishioner abuse that was gone on wildly in the Roman Catholic church, not to mention the outlandish dogmas and the pure ignoring of Scriptural premise on many of these issues. Martin Luther got an obvious revelation from God to do what he did in the eyes of a horrible death such as the ones who died several years later in England at the hands of bloody Mary.

This is an example of people going along with myths. Bloody Mary executed around 290 people, and if I recall correctly, oversaw 5 million people. Calvin executed 53 out of between 13,000 and 15,000 resindets of Geneva. Calvin was much more of a killer than Boody Mary. Protestants need not only SS they need propaganda. Propaganda is good for Protestants.

 

[grandfather]

This is a reference to the Catholic Mary who was much maligned…
It’s a rather long and sad story. She gave mercy to her sister, who in turn, gave no mercy to her…

Very sad indeed.

But, even Mary here we speak of- I do not believe she would hate her sister for it. Elizabeth was a person that had some hard choices to make also…

Its so easy for us to imagine who was right and wrong then.

Its not that simple really.

At the end of her life Elizabeth was haunted. She died a horrible death. Many Catholic priests were put to death under her reign. Saint Edmund Campion’s story, Saint John Fisher, Carthusians starved to death, and lay people also murdered. It was a terrible time in England’s history. On her deathbed Elizabeth was visited by the famous Lord Nelson. She sat on the floor and cried unconsolable by all. He tried to feed her broth with a spoon and begged her to get back in her bed and be cared for by her ladies in waitng. She told him that if he knew what was there waiting for her in her bed he would not tell her to go there. The Archbishop of Canterbury and his lackies came to assist her and she drove them away telling him that they were nothing bu a bunch of “hedge priests.” We pray that this agony was a sign of her repentance.

As with all of us there are things we do in our pasts that are disordered. At the moment of our death they are there as well as all the good. This is really so. My heart stopped. I know.

In addition to our pasts we also impact the future. After we are gone the things we do and the choices we make will impact generations to come. Every act of love will echo across the ages, and every sin also will.

Some of us play key roles on the stage of history and bear terrible reponsibilities. Imagine being Saint Peter and knowing you are “a sinful man” and being given the responsiblility Christ gave him. Or imagine being Judas.

Elizabeth came on the stage of history and did what she did and impacted generations to come.

Sometimes dying people get a vision of what is to come for their souls. There are many stories of saints and regular average people seeing something and calling out in joy or having their countenance transfigured. There are also stories of dying people being terrified by visions of what they saw coming. Stalin is one. He died screaming that he was being ravaged by wolves.

This life leads us to the next. When we realize this we can only beg God for mercy for all, including our enemies and the enemies of the Church. Those who have caused division, scandal, death of innocents, false witnesses, adulterers, murderers. God have mercy on us all.

If God would forgive Saint Paul who instigated the murder of Christians, maybe He will forgive Elizabeth. We pray.

 

[notsmart]

I agree Grandfather, I agree.
God has mercy we can not even comprehend.

 

[churchcamefirst]

I agree Grandfather, I agree.
God has mercy we can not even comprehend.

And God has a just side also.

 

[grandfather]

And God has a just side also.

I realize this, but for some reason I never pray for justice, not for anyone. Lord have mercy, Kyrie Eleison, Hospodi Pomiluj.

There is no person that I say, Lord give Him what he deserves. It is always, God be merciful. God save us.

Somehow in Him, mercy and justice meet and are harmonized. What soul would be in heaven without pardon? Justice says only Mary.

 

[SIA]

This is an example of people going along with myths. Bloody Mary executed around 290 people, and if I recall correctly, oversaw 5 million people. Calvin executed 53 out of between 13,000 and 15,000 resindets of Geneva. Calvin was much more of a killer than Boody Mary. Protestants need not only SS they need propaganda. Propaganda is good for Protestants.

Who said anything about Calvin? We don’t recognize what Calvin taught as authority. Calvin pretty much threw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Lisdogan]

The thing is that while so many threads go round and round the maypole/mulberry bush on the reformation/counter reformation/ Luther and Calvin, there is a perfectly good, reasonable, and historically (and theologically) accurate account of Luther et al and the reforms on both sides of the fence in the New Dictionary of Catholic Spirituality. It put my soul to rest: it was fact, it was written by a Catholic, it was a just and humane piece, and we should all read it so we can actually KNOW instead of CONJECTURING.

Love in Christ,