if Muslims don't beleive in the same God as Christians, do Jews

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

…Jesus may never have uttered the word Trinity,

if salvation depends on Trinity , why he never uttered it ? I asked u this question in LI ?

Christians reject that God and God’s creations are equal as well.

holy Spirit is a creation of God or was he always there ?

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you still don’t understand the Christian concept of Trinity.

yes , Trinity is becoming more complicated day by day. Few Christians told me Mother Mary (p) is dauther of father but she is not sister of Jesus (p). She is spouse of holy Spirit / she is not spouse of holy Spiri etc. Don’t know how Chrisitans can understand all these mysteries.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

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Salaam/peace

if salvation depends on Trinity , why he never uttered it ? I asked u this question in LI ?

Salvation doesn’t depend on Trinity, it depends on the cross. Trinity simply is a human way of explaining the nature and character of the God who is. Obviously, it isn’t a very good explanation as it seems to confuse as many people as it helps, but we still believe what is revealed in scripture is a God who exists as a triune being, but the name (i.e. label) you put on that is not relevant to the state of one’s salvation.

holy Spirit is a creation of God or was he always there ?

Holy Spirit is NOT a creation of God. Holy Spirit is in fact God himself, so yes, of course he is always there.

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yes , Trinity is becoming more complicated day by day. Few Christians told me Mother Mary (p) is dauther of father but she is not sister of Jesus (p). She is spouse of holy Spirit / she is not spouse of holy Spiri etc. Don’t know how Chrisitans can understand all these mysteries.

Some of the Christians you have been talking to seem confused as well.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

Salvation doesn’t depend on Trinity, it depends on the cross.

If one believes that Jesus (p) died on the cross but he is not God , then s/he is saved ?

Holy Spirit is in fact God himself, so yes, of course he is always there.

Surely u memorised the verse
Pl. post it . Thanks

 

[Grace_Seeker]

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Salaam/peace

If one believes that Jesus (p) died on the cross but he is not God , then s/he is saved ?

No. Then s/he is an Ebionite.

Some understanding of the difference in the way that Muslims and Christians use the term “belief” is in order. It isn’t about belief in the sense of acknowledging Jesus death on the cross to be true. Even the devil believes in that sense. It is a belief which equates with trusting in the efficacy of that death and living in an ongoing relationship with Jesus based on that trust. If you do that, the belief in Jesus as divine will take care of itself.

Surely u memorised the verse
Pl. post it . Thanks

Will you be satisfied with the opening lines from the Bible which describe God’s act of creation and that the “Spirit of God” (i.e. the Holy Spirit) was present and active even before God’s first act of creation?

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

There is no time that God exists that the Spirit of God does not also exist. Note also that it is the Spirit which gives breath (and therefore life) to humankind.

The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. (Job 33:4)

So, the Spirit is at work in creation, not as product of it. Also in Pslam 104 we see the Spirit as an agent of creation:

When you send your Spirit,
they are created,
and you renew the face of the earth. (Psalm 104:30)

The term “they” in the passage refers back to a whole list of things that are part of God’s creation: sea, trees, mountains, various beasts, even the wind.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

No. Then s/he is an Ebionite.

This is a new word. So, s/he will be in hell ? To be saved , one must worship Jesus (p) as God ?

Will you be satisfied with the opening lines from the Bible which describe God’s act of creation and that the “Spirit of God”

I guess , Jews explain it differently & don’t worship holy Spirit (p) as God because of this verse ?

 

[Grace_Seeker]

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Salaam/peace

This is a new word. So, s/he will be in hell ? To be saved , one must worship Jesus (p) as God ?

It is not for me to say who is and who is not in hell. Belief in Jesus is sufficient to save. I understand that belief again not to be about Jesus as this or that, or having done this or that, but actual belief in Jesus. It is about trust, just as a child expresses “belief” or “trust” in their parent by jumping and saying, “Here, Daddy/Mommy, catch me.” Christians jump into Jesus’ arms, outstretched as they are to us on the cross, and say, “Here, Lord, catch me.” And we trust that when we do so, he is both willing and able to catch us and that by doing so he will save us from our sins.

None of that says that Jesus cannot also reach down and pick someone up who hasn’t leaped out in trust to him. But whether he actually does or not, I don’t see the scriptures rendering a verdict one way or the other. So, I must leave your question unanswered for all those who do not know, do not believe in, or do not trust Jesus. The best I can do is affirm the promise of God for the salvation of all who do, and leave to God’s abundant grace and mercy any others that he might act to save as well. As you might say, Allah knows best.

I guess , Jews explain it differently & don’t worship holy Spirit (p) as God because of this verse ?

Jews do recognize that God is spirit and must be worshipped in Spirit. What they really don’t worship is the concept of God as THE Father. The Jewish concept of the “fatherhood” of God is a metaphorical concept, while the concept of God as spirit is quite literal. Thus, in my personal opinion Jews do worship the Holy Spirit, they just don’t know that they do because they don’t see him as a distinct person. Of course, you would be advised to actually ask some Jews your question. I’m sure they will give you a different (and better) understanding of their faith and interpretation of these passages than I did.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I was listening to a right wing radio station and the host , anti-Muslim, said Muslims do not beleive in the same God as Chrsitians and jews.

Well, yes, Muslims do not beleive in a Trinitarian God - but neither do Jews.

Tell me, is it not true that neither Muslims or Jews believe in the same God as Christians?

The whole thing is ambiguous - it can mean:​

• All three groups have the just the one deity to worship
  or it can mean
• All three groups have the same ideas about whatever deity they worship
  Quite which is meant, Rome has not yet explained. Which is pretty stupid, because the CC is criticised non-stop by others for the second position; whereas, the first is probably what is meant.

FWIW, CCC 841 is taken from Vatican II’s document Nostra Aetate.

 

[rikkk1958]

Jews do recognize that God is spirit and must be worshipped in Spirit. What they really don’t worship is the concept of God as THE Father. The Jewish concept of the “fatherhood” of God is a metaphorical concept, while the concept of God as spirit is quite literal. Thus, in my personal opinion Jews do worship the Holy Spirit, they just don’t know that they do because they don’t see him as a distinct person. Of course, you would be advised to actually ask some Jews your question. I’m sure they will give you a different (and better) understanding of their faith and interpretation of these passages than I did

.

The Holy Trinity is very complex issue and that is the beauty of it because if Christians would like it simple they should not bother by understanding it. However, if you have faith you will understand. These are some reference here you can take a look.
youtube.com/watch?v=xi2nAHPpgvI
youtube.com/watch?v=HKvbNh3Xg7Q

Home - Arabic Bible Outreach Ministry

Arabic Bible Outreach Ministry is dedicated to proclaim the Love of God as revealed in the Holy Bible to all Arabic speaking people on the Internet.

www.arabicbible.com

 

[KLIBERA]

They All Believe In The Same God, Just Use Different Ladders To Reach Him. All 3 Faiths Share Versions Of The Golden Rule. Of Key Note As Mention By Rbarcia Is Paul: Romans: 6. Here Paul Had Insight That Few Of Us Have Failed To Grasp. This Was God’s Purpose. Christ As The Suffering Servant Came For The Gentiles At Large. There Is No Rejection Or Annulment Of The Covenant With Abraham. It Is God’s Work That The Jewish People Have Been Blinded Spiritually. He Did The Same With Pharoah In Hardening His Heart. Salvation Is Still Of The Jews. God Still Carries Out His Purpose With The Jewish People.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

Salvation doesn’t depend on Trinity, it depends on the cross.

Pl. explain this . If Salvation does not depend on Trinity , why Christians give so much importances on it ? It is such a complicated matter. What includes in the belief on Cross ?

 

[Grace_Seeker]

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Salaam/peace

Pl. explain this . If Salvation does not depend on Trinity , why Christians give so much importances on it ?

The importance isn’t tied to salvation, it is tied to simply wanting to speak about God in as accurate of a way as possible. You understand that an Arabic speaking Christian would have no problem in saying that there is no God but Allah. Every day in countless languages Christians affirm that there is no God but God. And all Christians who are not simply nominal Christians (i.e. in name only) seek to live their lives in submission to the will of God. So, will you accept that Christians are in fact saved? No. And why not? Because Muslims make a big deal our of the Trinity. You see, in truth, I rarely talk about the Trinity with other Christians, but I find myself being constantly asked to talk about it with Muslims.

So, let me ask you a question:
If Christians are willing to say that there is no God but God and this profession is the key to salvation for Muslims, please explain why Muslims give so much importance to the Trinity?

 

[trdchubi]

The Jews believed and worshiped the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Christians also believed on the same God that the Jews worshiped.

The Jews and Christians differ only in the role of Christ in the whole doctrine of faith and salvation, but as for the foundation of each faith, they totally agree with the worship of the God of Abraham.

True enough muslims ARE BRAINWASHED TO BELIEVE that they worship the same God of the Christians and Jews.

Here’s why:

"That Islam was conceived in IDOLATRY is shown by the fact that many rituals
performed in the name of Allah were connected with the pagan worship that
existed before Islam. And today, millions of Moslems pray towards Mecca,
where the famous revered black stone is located.

1. Before Islam Allah was reported to be know as:
   –the supreme of a pantheon of gods.
   –the name of a god whom the Arabs worshipped.
   –the chief god of the pantheon.
   –Ali-ilah, the god, the supreme.
   –the all-powerful, all-knowing, and totally unknowable.
   –the predeterminer of everyone’s life) destiny).
   –chief of the gods.
   –the special deity of the Quraish.
   –having three daughters: Al Uzzah (Venus), Manah (Destiny), and Alat.
   –having the idol temple at Mecca under his name (House of Allah).
   –the mate of Alat, the goddess of fate.
2. Because the Ka’aba, the sacred shrine which contains the Black Stone, in
   Mecca was used for pagan idol worship before Islam and even called the House
   of Allah at that time.
3. Because the rituals involved with the Islamic Pilgrimage are either
   identical or very close to the pre-Islamic pagan idol worship at Mecca.
4. Because of other Arabian history which points to heathen worship of the
   sun, moon, and the stars, as well as other gods, of which I believe Allah
   was in some way connected to.

This then would prove to us that Allah is not the same as the true God of the Bible whom we worship, because God never changes."

More of this here

 

[rikkk1958]

I wish to make correction on the links I provided about the explanation of the Holy Trinity. As I said, the issue is complex especially if you are not a Christian yet. Our position as Catholic is simple because we have already the dogma that was set before us. Thanks for the early fathers for their efforts in passing the traditions which we believed started from the source, and of course the Holy Scriptures to confirm them. This link aside from the Messianic Jew I linked, is an explanation by an Arab Christian. The plurality in unity. Which means that God is everywhere and can be anything He wishes.

arabicbible.com/islam/trinit.htm

 

[Valke2]

Islam was conceived in IDOLATRY is shown by the fact that many rituals
performed in the name of Allah were connected with the pagan worship that
existed before Islam.

Many Jewish rituals and practices also have their roots in pagan rituals, including sacrifices and building altars.

I would also point out that in the Torah we see God as a very amorphic being. He travels with the Jews. He dwells first on a specific mountain before he accompanies Moses back to Egypt and then the Jews out of Egypt. He walks in the garden of Eden. He wrestles with Jacob (and yields).

He becomes angry.
He is sometimes a warrior.
Etc.

Islam is not the only faith that has roots going back to other practices.

 

[Athanasiy]

I was listening to a right wing radio station and the host , anti-Muslim, said Muslims do not beleive in the same God as Chrsitians and jews.

Well, yes, Muslims do not beleive in a Trinitarian God - but neither do Jews.

Tell me, is it not true that neither Muslims or Jews believe in the same God as Christians?

Catholics understanding of God is much different from the Muslim and Jewish understanding !
Though I agree that in some forms of Evangelical Christianity , there is much stronger idea of the God of Judaism than the Christian God.
I can not imagine Old Testament without the New Testament.
The Old Testament teaching without New Testament is not just a vain but in some ways even extremely dangerous .
Yes. We must love and serve God .
We are not a slaves for our heavenly master , but we are children for our Heavenly Father.
Mind also that – we must love and serve God , not he must serve us .
(Its not in the Christian nature to accuse God or protest against God or argue with God .)
But I agree that we Christians have a lot to learn.
We have to learn how to respect the spirituality of another religion in our neighbor .
To be more compassionate to the suffering of our neighbor , no matter of his religion , if our neighbor is ‘‘human’’ its more than enough reason to be compassionate .
Also we have to learn how to believe in God and to trust him.
I do not agree with the theories of the Muslims but in some ways , I see their societies much closer to trusting God than the Christian societies .
And it’s bad for us , because God delivered us the full spiritual truth , which we in the pride and arrogance of our societies are losing , by putting ourselves on the place of God .