If Naturalism Is True, Then Is There Any Good Reason To Value Life And Continue Living?

[MindOverMatter]

If life is an meaningless accident, if we live to escape death, if life is nothing more then then the opportunity to exploit the senses, eat, sleep, poo, and interact with other organisms, then what is the point of living, outside of the fantasies that we generate to make ourselves feel better about living?

Is there any reason to take life seriously?

Is there any reason to perceive life as rational?

Is there any reason to be moral?

Is there any reason to tell ones self that life is worth living?

Is there any reason to believe that ones behavior is better then somebody else’s?

Is there any good reason to bring children into this world, knowing of all the potential horrors and fleeting pleasures that exist?

Do we live because we fear death, and if we had no fear of it would we honestly continue living?

Is it more rational to stay alive or commit suicide?

When i was an atheist, i came to a point in my life where I was faced with these questions. Having been free from the so called fantasy of God, I began to see through the fantasies, the horrors, the weaknesses and the insecurities of the human ego and the inequality of the social hierarchy that we call humanity. I became aware that humanity could never fulfill me, that i was just tolerating them. I suddenly became aware of the mystery of existence, that i existed, and i could no longer take it for granted or hide from the cold despair that seemed to permeate my awareness of it. I became aware that any notions of normality, reason and morality meant absolutely nothing in regards to my world view, and that the only reason that i was tolerating this insanity that people called life, was because i feared death. But i could tolerate existence no more.

I was faced with the question of suicide, because i couldn’t find any value meaning or rational purpose in living. Life is insane. But i was also faced with the Question of God, because God is the embodiment of meaning purpose and the fulfillment of life.

I found that the question of why i exist as a person and why i desired fulfillment as a persons in terms of purpose, meaning and life, could only be sufficiently explained by the existence of that which justifies those desires as an objective truth; the Christian God.

So i didn’t begin as a philosopher, at least not to the degree that i am now; but instead i accepted faith as a principle of being because i refused to exist as a “person” under any other circumstance or condition. The insanity of life had to either end, or become the best that it could possibly be, and that is eternal life, happiness and joy, with Jesus Christ.

It seems to me, that once one sees life for what it is, and lives honestly day to day meditating on naturalism and its consequences, looking at life through a naturalistic world-view free from fantasy making, life becomes intolerable.

But perhaps somebody disagrees?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Even if you believe in God, and value your own life and those of others, this current administration is likely to encourage you to die to ‘save resources.’

 

[tonyrey]

If life is an meaningless accident, if we live to escape death, if life is nothing more then then the opportunity to exploit the senses, eat, sleep, poo, and interact with other organisms, then what is the point of living, outside of the fantasies that we generate to make ourselves feel better about living?

Is there any reason to take life seriously?

Is there any reason to perceive life as rational?

Is there any reason to be moral?

Is there any reason to tell ones self that life is worth living?

Is there any reason to believe that ones behavior is better then somebody else’s?

Is there any good reason to bring children into this world, knowing of all the potential horrors and fleeting pleasures that exist?

Do we live because we fear death, and if we had no fear of it would we honestly continue living?

Is it more rational to stay alive or commit suicide?

When i was an atheist, i came to a point in my life where I was faced with these questions. Having been free from the so called fantasy of God, I began to see through the fantasies, the horrors, the weaknesses and the insecurities of the human ego and the inequality of the social hierarchy that we call humanity. I became aware that humanity could never fulfill me, that i was just tolerating them. I suddenly became aware of the mystery of existence, that i existed, and i could no longer take it for granted or hide from the cold despair that seemed to permeate my awareness of it. I became aware that any notions of normality, reason and morality meant absolutely nothing in regards to my world view, and that the only reason that i was tolerating this insanity that people called life, was because i feared death. But i could tolerate existence no more.

I was faced with the question of suicide, because i couldn’t find any value meaning or rational purpose in living. Life is insane. But i was also faced with the Question of God, because God is the embodiment of meaning purpose and the fulfillment of life.

I found that the question of why i exist as a person and why i desired fulfillment as a persons in terms of purpose, meaning and life, could only be sufficiently explained by the existence of that which justifies those desires as an objective truth; the Christian God.

So i didn’t begin as a philosopher, at least not to the degree that i am now; but instead i accepted faith as a principle of being because i refused to exist as a “person” under any other circumstance or condition. The insanity of life had to either end, or become the best that it could possibly be, and that is eternal life, happiness and joy, with Jesus Christ.

It seems to me, that once one sees life for what it is, and lives honestly day to day meditating on naturalism and its consequences, looking at life through a naturalistic world-view free from fantasy making, life becomes intolerable.

But perhaps somebody disagrees?

 

[eggsbenedict]

Is there any reason to be moral?

You can find the answer to this by asking: Would you be happy with yourself if you did something that you consider immoral?

Is there any reason to tell ones self that life is worth living?

Life is worth the experience.

Is there any reason to believe that ones behavior is better then somebody else’s?

It make some people feel superior, but it’s a false sense of superiority.

I was faced with the question of suicide, because i couldn’t find any value meaning or rational purpose in living. Life is insane. But i was also faced with the Question of God, because God is the embodiment of meaning purpose and the fulfillment of life.

Life has whatever purpose you want. Don’t let others define it’s meaning. If they are so adamant about it, let them live it.

The insanity of life had to either end, or become the best that it could possibly be, and that is eternal life, happiness and joy, with Jesus Christ.

Why did it have to be with Jesus Christ, and not the Dahla Lamma?

It seems to me, that once one sees life for what it is, and lives honestly day to day meditating on naturalism and its consequences, looking at life through a naturalistic world-view free from fantasy making, life becomes intolerable.

I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way.

 

[Oreoracle]

In order to answer these questions, we have to know what you mean by “good reason.” I mean, what makes one reason any better than another?

Just putting that out there…

 

[j1akey]

Sailor Kenshin:

Even if you believe in God, and value your own life and those of others, this current administration is likely to encourage you to die to ‘save resources.’

Wow…just …wow. I don’t even know where to start with that.

 

[tjm190]

As a former atheist, I thoroughly enjoyed nihilism- not sure why you’re so down on it

 

[tjm190]

having retained the ability to think nihilistically, here’s what i would have told you

Is there any reason to take life seriously?- It’s the most serious thing you experience

Is there any reason to perceive life as rational?- rationality is a human invention, life does not conform to our musings

Is there any reason to be moral?- Only if you see some other benefit

Is there any reason to tell ones self that life is worth living?- Only if you are enjoying life

Is there any reason to believe that ones behavior is better then somebody else’s?- relativism is a part of nihilism, so no

Is there any good reason to bring children into this world, knowing of all the potential horrors and fleeting pleasures that exist?- it’s an evolutionary imperative

Do we live because we fear death, and if we had no fear of it would we honestly continue living?- If we enjoyed life we would want to continue enjoying it

Is it more rational to stay alive or commit suicide?- If you wish to continue living

 

[kk23wong]

If life is an meaningless accident, if we live to escape death, if life is nothing more then then the opportunity to exploit the senses, eat, sleep, poo, and interact with other organisms, then what is the point of living, outside of the fantasies that we generate to make ourselves feel better about living?

Is there any reason to take life seriously?

Is there any reason to perceive life as rational?

Is there any reason to be moral?

Is there any reason to tell ones self that life is worth living?

Is there any reason to believe that ones behavior is better then somebody else’s?

Is there any good reason to bring children into this world, knowing of all the potential horrors and fleeting pleasures that exist?

Do we live because we fear death, and if we had no fear of it would we honestly continue living?

Is it more rational to stay alive or commit suicide?

When i was an atheist, i came to a point in my life where I was faced with these questions. Having been free from the so called fantasy of God, I began to see through the fantasies, the horrors, the weaknesses and the insecurities of the human ego and the inequality of the social hierarchy that we call humanity. I became aware that humanity could never fulfill me, that i was just tolerating them. I suddenly became aware of the mystery of existence, that i existed, and i could no longer take it for granted or hide from the cold despair that seemed to permeate my awareness of it. I became aware that any notions of normality, reason and morality meant absolutely nothing in regards to my world view, and that the only reason that i was tolerating this insanity that people called life, was because i feared death. But i could tolerate existence no more.

I was faced with the question of suicide, because i couldn’t find any value meaning or rational purpose in living. Life is insane. But i was also faced with the Question of God, because God is the embodiment of meaning purpose and the fulfillment of life.

I found that the question of why i exist as a person and why i desired fulfillment as a persons in terms of purpose, meaning and life, could only be sufficiently explained by the existence of that which justifies those desires as an objective truth; the Christian God.

So i didn’t begin as a philosopher, at least not to the degree that i am now; but instead i accepted faith as a principle of being because i refused to exist as a “person” under any other circumstance or condition. The insanity of life had to either end, or become the best that it could possibly be, and that is eternal life, happiness and joy, with Jesus Christ.

It seems to me, that once one sees life for what it is, and lives honestly day to day meditating on naturalism and its consequences, looking at life through a naturalistic world-view free from fantasy making, life becomes intolerable.

But perhaps somebody disagrees?

Life is not meaningless. You have minds, you can find yourself a meaning. Meanings are not given by God, but yourself. Free Will. Freedom is granted by God. Life is given by God through the power of Birth.

Fears come from Birth. Love also. You have Love in your heart, then there are no reasons to be affraid.

Thinking of ones’ own meanings of life is normal. Similar to Good and Evil. Both from Birth. Admit the dark sides of you, love the others like family. Light and Darkness never contracy. Both of them exists. Light on, Dark off. Dark switched on, Light off. They are one, but different. God never fear anyone of us. She just like us, but in different levels of lives. Her presences are different. You are inside, she is everywhere. She is taking care of us. She is kind. I know her, so are you. She may have mistakes, but she loves you. God is always with us. She is our mother.

Suicide is her own decisions. God will not stop her. Freedom is granted by God. She never wants her children committing sucide. God loves you, so she gives you freedom. Destiny is the will of God. Fates are the freedom given by her.

Happiness depends on your heart. Love in your heart make you joyful.

Natural by Birth. You are a part of her. If nature is our mother, so as the God. Nature is not clear enough, then I prefer to use Planet. It is scientific, but it proved her existence. Believers may say, “The existences of God don’t need to be proven.” Then you have already given up your beliefs. To believe, use the love in your heart. Love is eternal.

God Bless,

Teru

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You can find the answer to this by asking: Would you be happy with yourself if you did something that you consider immoral?

Life is worth the experience.

It make some people feel superior, but it’s a false sense of superiority.

Life has whatever purpose you want. Don’t let others define it’s meaning. If they are so adamant about it, let them live it.

Why did it have to be with Jesus Christ, and not the Dahla Lamma?

Because only Christ is the Savior, and the Eternal Word. The Dalai Lama is not. Mere opinion does not alter fact.

 

[redhen]

If life is an meaningless accident, if we live to escape death, if life is nothing more then then the opportunity to exploit the senses, eat, sleep, poo, and interact with other organisms, then what is the point of living,

I’ll play Devil’s advocate here and answer as an atheist. Personally though, when it comes to the creation of the universe, an afterlife, rebirth, karma, God; I can only answer honestly with “I don’t know”.

So, your first question is what is the point of our lives? I’ll answer with another question; what is the purpose of a non-human ape’s life? I would suggest the purpose of all individual lives, of all species, is to propagate the species. That’s our number one drive. That’s why the sex drive is so hard to control. It’s that important.

Is there any reason to take life seriously?

Only if you believe there is. There are many who do not.

Is there any reason to perceive life as rational?

Not sure what you mean by rational.If you mean ordered, coherent, etc., then yes, the natural laws affirm this.

Is there any reason to be moral?

I’ll scratch your back, you scratch mine. In order for homo sapiens to live together in a community without conflicts, certain moral and ethical rules need to be implemented.

Is there any reason to tell ones self that life is worth living?

Sure, there are plenty, but the number one reason is the self-preservation instinct present in all species.

Is there any reason to believe that ones behavior is better then somebody else’s?

None what so ever. Everyone is seeking happiness, each in their own way. In order to compare moral or ethical behaviour, you need some kind of universal measuring stick.

Is there any good reason to bring children into this world, knowing of all the potential horrors and fleeting pleasures that exist?

Again, the sex drive, which is right up there on the list of motivational agents along with sleep, food and drink. I would wager that most pregnancies are not planned. They are the product of this powerful natural drive.

Do we live because we fear death, and if we had no fear of it would we honestly continue living?

Self-preservation is a powerful instinct.

Is it more rational to stay alive or commit suicide?

Suicide is an act which is completely contrary to our self-replicating DNA.

I suddenly became aware of the mystery of existence, that i existed, …hide from the cold despair … aware that any notions of normality, reason and morality meant absolutely nothing … the only reason that i was tolerating this insanity that people called life, was because i feared death. But i could tolerate existence no more.

This seems to be a trait of privileged westerners. I don’t think there are many poor people in third world countries who develop existential angst, and ruminate about it.

I was faced with the question of suicide, because i couldn’t find any value meaning or rational purpose in living. Life is insane. But i was also faced with the Question of God, because God is the embodiment of meaning purpose and the fulfillment of life.

All the non-theists in the world, including Buddhists and Taoists, would disagree.

I found that the question of why i exist as a person and why i desired fulfillment as a persons in terms of purpose, meaning and life, could only be sufficiently explained by the existence of that which justifies those desires as an objective truth; the Christian God.

Have you examined other religions or philosophic worldviews?

i accepted faith as a principle of being because i refused to exist as a “person” under any other circumstance or condition. The insanity of life had to either end, or become the best that it could possibly be, and that is eternal life, happiness and joy, with Jesus Christ.

I suppose this is why it’s called a* leap of faith.* It’s completely subjective and arbitrary.

once one sees life for what it is, and lives honestly day to day meditating on naturalism and its consequences, looking at life through a naturalistic world-view free from fantasy making, life becomes intolerable.

There are many non-theists who would disagree.

"When we die there are two things we can leave behind us: genes and memes. We were built as gene machines, created to pass on our genes. But that aspect of us will be forgotten in three generations. Your child, even your grandchild, may bear a resemblance to you, perhaps in facial features, in a talent for music, in the colour of her hair. But as each generation passes, the contribution of your genes is halved. It does not take long to reach negligible proportions. Our genes may be immortal but the collection of genes that is any one of us is bound to crumble away. Elizabeth II is a direct descendant of William the Conqueror. Yet it is quite probable that she bears not a single one of the old king’s genes. We should not seek immortality in reproduction.

But if you contribute to the world’s culture, if you have a good idea, compose a tune, invent a sparking plug, write a poem, it may live on, intact, long after your genes have dissolved in the common pool. Socrates may or may not have a gene or two alive in the world today, as G.C. Williams has remarked, but who cares ? The meme-complexes of Socrates, Leonardo, Copernicus and Marconi are still going strong. "

rubinghscience.org/memetics/dawkinsmemes.html

So there are at least two valid choices; either give in to your selfish genes and pass on your DNA as much as possible (in this regard, Genghis Khan is the clear winner), or use that unique cerebral cortex of homo sapiens to it’s maximum potential.

 

[tonyrey]

So there are at least two valid choices; either give in to your selfish genes and pass on your DNA as much as possible (in this regard, Genghis Khan is the clear winner), or use that unique cerebral cortex of homo sapiens to it’s maximum potential.

There’s one problem - where do you obtain the power to choose not to give into your genes?

 

[redhen]

There’s one problem - where do you obtain the power to choose not to give into your genes?

There are many individual theories. As in many human behaviours, there is usually never just one single reason. Freud proposed his id-ego-superego theory. There are also societal norms to keep these drives in check.

This is the only problem you have with my post? Interesting.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Without God as the glue, the entire world falls apart. Look around you. Secular humanism is responsible for every horror you see.

 

[redhen]

Without God as the glue, the entire world falls apart. Look around you. Secular humanism is responsible for every horror you see.

Well, I can see this could easily turn into a moral/ethical competition; you’ll point out Catholic Charities, I’ll respond with Tzu Chi, a Buddhist relief organization that also builds hospitals and schools. You’ll add a sectarian good will organization, and I’ll counter with a secular one, etc, etc.

But to claim that secular humanism is responsible for every horror I see, is well, a gross simplification and exaggeration.

More to it, to follow your logic, how would you explain all the horrors before the advent of secular humanism? Those dam Stoics or Pythagoreans?

 

[tonyrey]

There are many individual theories. As in many human behaviours, there is usually never just one single reason. Freud proposed his id-ego-superego theory. There are also societal norms to keep these drives in check.

This is the only problem you have with my post? Interesting.

There are many but it would be impertinent for me to intrude further in an ongoing discussions at this stage. I knew MOM would not mind if I made that point.

 

[Dameedna]

Yeah you had a serious case of Nihilism going on there. Glad you found a purpose that stopped you from doing something that you couldn’t take back

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Well, I can see this could easily turn into a moral/ethical competition; you’ll point out Catholic Charities, I’ll respond with Tzu Chi, a Buddhist relief organization that also builds hospitals and schools. You’ll add a sectarian good will organization, and I’ll counter with a secular one, etc, etc.

But to claim that secular humanism is responsible for every horror I see, is well, a gross simplification and exaggeration.

More to it, to follow your logic, how would you explain all the horrors before the advent of secular humanism? Those dam Stoics or Pythagoreans?

They were secular humanists as well. You may deny God all you wish; He gives you the free will to do so. That changes things not one bit.

 

[redhen]

They were secular humanists as well. You may deny God all you wish; He gives you the free will to do so. That changes things not one bit.

The Stoics were dutiful towards the gods. Cleanthes left us his Hymn to Zeus. The Pythagoreans believed in the transmigration of souls. Secular humanism is a recently coined term. By lumping in the ancient Greeks, I assume what you really meant was all those who do not believe in the Abrahamic God.

So when you originally posted

“Without God as the glue, the entire world falls apart. Look around you. Secular humanism is responsible for every horror you see.”

, you’re including other faiths and those who believe in the supernatural and spirituality (unlike secular humanists).

Is that what you mean? If so, how do you make that inference?

 

[hienieboo]

If life is an meaningless accident, if we live to escape death, if life is nothing more then then the opportunity to exploit the senses, eat, sleep, poo, and interact with other organisms, then what is the point of living, outside of the fantasies that we generate to make ourselves feel better about living?

Is there any reason to take life seriously?

Is there any reason to perceive life as rational?

Is there any reason to be moral?

Is there any reason to tell ones self that life is worth living?

Is there any reason to believe that ones behavior is better then somebody else’s?

Is there any good reason to bring children into this world, knowing of all the potential horrors and fleeting pleasures that exist?

Do we live because we fear death, and if we had no fear of it would we honestly continue living?

Is it more rational to stay alive or commit suicide?

When i was an atheist, i came to a point in my life where I was faced with these questions. Having been free from the so called fantasy of God, I began to see through the fantasies, the horrors, the weaknesses and the insecurities of the human ego and the inequality of the social hierarchy that we call humanity. I became aware that humanity could never fulfill me, that i was just tolerating them. I suddenly became aware of the mystery of existence, that i existed, and i could no longer take it for granted or hide from the cold despair that seemed to permeate my awareness of it. I became aware that any notions of normality, reason and morality meant absolutely nothing in regards to my world view, and that the only reason that i was tolerating this insanity that people called life, was because i feared death. But i could tolerate existence no more.

I was faced with the question of suicide, because i couldn’t find any value meaning or rational purpose in living. Life is insane. But i was also faced with the Question of God, because God is the embodiment of meaning purpose and the fulfillment of life.

I found that the question of why i exist as a person and why i desired fulfillment as a persons in terms of purpose, meaning and life, could only be sufficiently explained by the existence of that which justifies those desires as an objective truth; the Christian God.

So i didn’t begin as a philosopher, at least not to the degree that i am now; but instead i accepted faith as a principle of being because i refused to exist as a “person” under any other circumstance or condition. The insanity of life had to either end, or become the best that it could possibly be, and that is eternal life, happiness and joy, with Jesus Christ.

It seems to me, that once one sees life for what it is, and lives honestly day to day meditating on naturalism and its consequences, looking at life through a naturalistic world-view free from fantasy making, life becomes intolerable.

But perhaps somebody disagrees?

wow i have to say i am in awe of your words… that is a lot of questions that i have asked myself thru my life… i do believe that life is worth it… there is a purpose for my life as well as others… i believe this is all in your mindset…suicide is a choice if you decide to commit it or not… i have thought about that thru my darkest times, but i know that there is much more to live… we may be bored of life and sometimes we may hate it, but without actually being born… we wouldn’t be able to experience what we have… that is why i pray every day for a better day… i do mediate on God’s words a lot… i wish you the best and god bless you