If the UK allowed a border poll and six counties in the North of Ireland voted for reunification

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… then do you think that the UK would continue to interfere in the North of Ireland as Russia has interfered in Ukraine, or do you think that the UK would respect the results of the border poll?

The language that I am using comes from here.

I hope that it is possible to discuss the question that I raised without anybody trying to continue the locked discussion about the IRA.

If it were believed that the government of the UK would not respect the result of a referendum held in the North of Ireland, and if it were believed that the people of the UK would allow such refusal to respect the result, then there would seem to be little point in holding such a referendum.

Now, the assumption that the referendum results would be respected suggests that it should be possible for discussion in this thread to proceed with mutual respect.
 
As an Irish person, I think what would happen is that Westminister would campaign strongly to remain whole. But if the North decided to leave they would respect that, although just like Brexit is gonna be a hard land for the UK, the North leaving the UK could be a hard land too; the Irish government doesn’t have the funds to maintain the benefits that the North currently has (at least, I have in-laws who live in the North specifically because they have two autistic sons who get far more therapy and the like in the North).

So in short, the UK would allow it, they will warn the North that it aint gonna be easy before the referendum, but if they decide to leave they will respect it.
 
By the way I’m basing the above on what I observed during the Scottish referendum. They decided to stay, but had they not, I do not believe they would have been stopped.
 
A final point on reading the post you linked to (initially didn’t look at it sorry): while nationalists prefer the term The North of Ireland, the vast majority of Irish do say Northern Ireland, which is its’ official name.
 
ShrodingersCat said:
So in short, the UK would allow it, they will warn the North that it aint gonna be easy before the referendum, but if they decide to leave they will respect it.
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Crimea voted to reunite with Russia, but the US refuses to accept it.
 
Tomdstone said:
Crimea voted to reunite with Russia, but the US refuses to accept it.
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What does the US have to do with it? The only reason the US was upset was because it was finally getting a hold with the Ukrainian government, who were becoming anti Russia. The US was interested in the Ukraine precisely because of the Crimea peninsula and Russia took it over precisely because of that. The US is not enemies with the UK or Ireland, so even if we should care what they think, I am sure they would support any free decision with regards to NI.

Anyway they were vastly different situations. Russia invaded Crimea, then had the election. I can’t see anyone refusing to accept a democratic decision from the people of NI any more than they would have if Scotland decided to do it. I am neutral as to whether they decide to stay or join the republic as long as it’s a democratic and fair process, which the Crimea situation wasn’t.
 
ShrodingersCat said:
…] while nationalists prefer the term The North of Ireland, the vast majority of Irish do say Northern Ireland, which is its’ official name.
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I am hoping that Irish nationalists will participate in this thread. It sounds as though you are giving me a reason to ignore the terminology that Irish nationalists prefer. However, you ought to be suggesting other ways – in addition to using the terminology that Irish nationalists prefer – to encourage Irish nationalists to participate in this thread.

After all, this isn’t supposed to be an echo chamber. If there were no difference between what you think and what other participants in this thread think, then nobody would learn anything from the discussion.
 
PseuTonym said:
… then do you think that the UK would continue to interfere in the North of Ireland as Russia has interfered in Ukraine, or do you think that the UK would respect the results of the border poll?

The language that I am using comes from here.

I hope that it is possible to discuss the question that I raised without anybody trying to continue the locked discussion about the IRA.

If it were believed that the government of the UK would not respect the result of a referendum held in the North of Ireland, and if it were believed that the people of the UK would allow such refusal to respect the result, then there would seem to be little point in holding such a referendum.

Now, the assumption that the referendum results would be respected suggests that it should be possible for discussion in this thread to proceed with mutual respect.
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If I remember right, the Good Friday Agreement (overwhelmingly supported in a referendum in both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland) provided that the Republic would amend its constitution to remove the claim of sovereignity over the entire island.

So if the Republic no longer claims Northern Ireland, it might not matter all that much what the outcome of a referendum in the North was.
 
If the North voted to reunite, there would likely be a referendum in Ireland for formalities’ sake to see if the people in the republic wanted to reunite. I don’t know how it would work, but Ireland having a sovereign claim over the North when no other country recognised it was pointless and it’s presence or absence has no influence on anything. The UK would have allowed Scotland leave, ergo the North would be allowed leave in a similar situation.

Britain didn’t initially invade Ireland. An Irish king invited the Normans over to fight for him against another king and gave land to them in exchange. Things went pear shaped later on. Especially after the reformation.

Also, again, Crimea is a completely different scenario. First off, the IRA didn’t invade the North; they were already there. Second, any decision to join the Republic would be made by the people in the North in spite of, not because of, the IRA.

Finally, if you were using the phrase the North of Ireland to bring nationalists Into the conversationy then that was a good idea. But I assumed that you thought you had made a mistake previously in the other thread and I was just pointing out that you were correct. I think that nationalists will give exactly the same answer though. IF there is a referendum and IF the result is yes, then NI will join RoI; RoI would overwhelmingly vote yes.

By the way, I’m not a unionist. I’m neutral on the issue; as long as it’s a fair democratic decision by the people north and south of the border. I have a huge problem with senseless violence from either camp though.
 
ShrodingersCat said:
First off, the IRA didn’t invade the North; they were already there. Second, any decision to join the Republic would be made by the people in the North in spite of, not because of, the IRA. .
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  1. Russians were already in Crimea.
  2. The people of Crimea voted to join Mother Russia. And the polls indicate the same result that the overwhelming majority of Crimeans wanted it.
    After the vote, there were huge demonstrations validating the result.
 
Tomdstone said:
  1. Russians were already in Crimea.
  2. The people of Crimea voted to join Mother Russia. And the polls indicate the same result that the overwhelming majority of Crimeans wanted it.
    After the vote, there were huge demonstrations validating the result.
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I have no problem with Crimea being part of Russia if it wants to be. But it is a completely different scenario. Russian people lived in Crimea, but I believe the validity of the referendum was questioned because the referendum happened after the Russian army invaded Crimea.

But my point is that its a completely different scenario because the US stratigically doesn’t give a monkey’s about NI, but the US wanted Ukraine to hold crimea because the US wanted control of the black sea instead of Russia… Which is why Russia invaded.

I’m fine with Russia controlling Crimea if that is what the crimeans want. My point is, what happened in Crimea has no bearing on what would happen in NI.
 
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